Porcupine Puffer greyish white skin and a cloudy eye

SaltwaterPufferGirl · Post by **SaltwaterPufferGirl** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:38 am

I had a porcupine puffer that I got Friday afternoon from my lfs. He ate good and was put in a 20 gallon quarantine tank, with a very small Niger trigger that I purchased the same day. I acclimated them fed them both swam and ate just fine. Then Sunday the porcupine started to just lay around and not eat even when I put some rams-horn snails in the tank that he ate the day before like candy. I noticed yesterday when I came home from work that he was breathing some what harder than normal, and his color was off he was pale from his mouth to middle of his back in this patchy color that looked like it was spreading. Nothing fuzzy just his skin was a grayish washed out color only in the above areas. He also had one cloudy eye and the fin that was on the same side as his cloudy left eye was clamped to his side. His back also had a arch to it and when he did swim he swam head down and bumped into stuff. I never saw the trigger or puff fight not even when I fed them. They both had their own sleeping/hiding places in the 20 gallon tank. I tested my water and my pH was at 7.8 which was low so I added pH buffer to the water when I did a water change on the tank yesterday in a attempt to remove any impurities in the tank that might have been causing this. Well after finding my puffer in this state about 5 hours later he was dead. When I removed him from the tank on his stomach it looked like he had a bruise or streaked veins were showing. Looked like a hickie that was fading away. I'm worried that my trigger might end up with the same fate, but he is very active and eating like a horse. Any advice you can give will be very appreciated. I wish I had taken pictures of the little guy, his stomach also looked bloated more than normal do you think he might have had some type of worms.

lisalisa · Post by **lisalisa** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:13 am

I'm really sorry to hear that.

How big was he? I ask because the 'bent' position you talked about makes me think he was just too big for the 20.

In the future, I suggest not adding pH buffers to your tank. They will boost pH too quickly, and do not address the reason for pH drop, not to mention the rise is temporary.

What were the readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate?

I might suggest a necropsy to see if worms were indeed a factor here, although I'm not convinced of that either.

SaltwaterPufferGirl · Post by **SaltwaterPufferGirl** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:22 am

he was only 3 inches long at the most. my ammonia was just the only thing hardly giving a reading don't know the exact level but the lowest one on the liquid test. Everything else was ok except for the pH. When I was adding the pH kent marine buffer powder I was mixing it in slowly so he could adjust.

Jager · Post by **Jager** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:44 am

sorry those two fish were way to much for a 20 gallon tank. that bent position you are talking about is the puffer trying to fit in the tank, and turn. that is a bad thing.

sry that it didnt work out, but that trigger is way too big for the 20 even in q/t you can try it by itself, but its really dicey.

SaltwaterPufferGirl · Post by **SaltwaterPufferGirl** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:48 am

I though they would be ok in the tank for 3 weeks, the trigger is only about 2 inches long and the puffer 3 inches at the most. it isn't like both fish are 10 inches long each then I could see the reason for the bent position in the puffers back, But the puffer was swimming around fine and eating for a day or two looked very happy

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:47 am

Perhaps the trigger attacked the puffer. Even though they are small, that's a pretty small tank to keep them in for any length or time. There may have been agression that you didn't notice. Fish behave quite a bit differently when they have someone watching them.

He could have also been sickly to begin with...

onebadpuffer · Post by **onebadpuffer** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:49 pm

Sorry you lost the little guy. It sounded like he was just sick. I had a new fish die on me several months back with the same symptoms while it was in QT. You described it down to a t, but alas, I do not know what he/she had. I would keep an eye on the trigger for any signs of illness. Whatever my puff had, it took him very quick.

SaltwaterPufferGirl · Post by **SaltwaterPufferGirl** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:59 am

well it did suck that I lost the little guy, but the trigger is very active and loves to eat. The new problem is that the trigger fish started out with a white raised bump on its side about the size of the end of a ball point pin, I have been treating him with copper for the past 3 days, but the spot is still on him and he has started to show about 6 more raised spots on him, I don't think it looks like ick, much bigger than any ick spots I have ever seen. Yesterday I did a FW dip on him for 5 minutes and they stayed on, while my fish was laying on his side I touched the biggest spot with my finger and tried to pick it off it felt like hard rubber and wouldn't come off but I didn't try very hard to get it off in frear that I might do more damage than good. Any ideas on what this is on my fish?

onebadpuffer · Post by **onebadpuffer** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:44 am

Do the spots move around on him, or have they stayed stationary?

SaltwaterPufferGirl · Post by **SaltwaterPufferGirl** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:48 am

they don't move he has just started showing more of them over the past few days. The first one that I spotted has stopped growing, but the others are growing round and outward, he has about 6 spots on him total.

onebadpuffer · Post by **onebadpuffer** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:09 pm

Other than ich, not sure what it is. My only recommended treatment is what you have already done, freshwater dips/copper treatments. Is there anyway possible for you to get pics, cell phone, digital, or otherwise?

SaltwaterPufferGirl · Post by **SaltwaterPufferGirl** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:25 am

I will try to get my digital camera to work today and get him to come out and be still enought that I can take a good picture. It does look like from last night that the newest ones have stopped growing, which I hope is a good sign, and so has the 1st spot that I saw.

onebadpuffer · Post by **onebadpuffer** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:08 pm

Glad to hear it isn't getting any worse and may in fact be getting better. It wouldn't hurt to put a little Melafix in there while he is healing. That pic would still be very helpful if you can get it. Also, on a side note, having treated with copper, I would be hesitant to put another puff back in that tank.

SaltwaterPufferGirl · Post by **SaltwaterPufferGirl** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:14 pm

Still working on getting that picture. I have actually treated my dog face puff with copper in the past to get rid of a ick outbreak due to stress from a injury along with a lowered SG at the same time and he did and is still doing great, fat and happy as puffers go. Do you know if it woul be possible to have 2 dogface puffers in a 220 gallon tank, my puff is about 5 inches now.

onebadpuffer · Post by **onebadpuffer** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:19 pm

You should have enough room with the three fish in there. I don't see why you can't have 2 dogfaces. What else would you have besides the 2 puffs and the trigger? I unknowingly treated a puff with a copper-based med once as well, but it is not recommended if you have an alternate treatment method. Copper is poisonous to puffers. RTR or someone with more knowledge on this matter and how is harms puffers can give you a more accurate and detailed response than I can regarding that subject.

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Porcupine Puffer greyish white skin and a cloudy eye

Porcupine Puffer greyish white skin and a cloudy eye