Lethargic SAP with injured/clamped fins

[puffchella]

Hi everyone! I'm new here, but not to the hobby or to puffers.

I picked up 4 SAPs about 6 weeks ago. I had been searching high and low for them locally and had them on order through my LFS. the first time they called me to tell me the puffers were in, I went down there only to find out they had received some dwarfs instead of SAPs. total bummer but I asked them to keep trying. they finally called after another month and I've had them ever since. about 3 weeks ago, I noticed that one of them was favoring his anal fin and that it was really cloudy and looked injured. he was still moving around fine and had no trouble eating so I figured it was an accidental feeding time injury and to keep an eye on it. it seemed to get better over the next 2 weeks to the point where I stopped worrying, but the last few days he's been swimming really lethargically and often lists with his tail above his head in the current. he also doesn't seem to be eating as much through he does still pick at the occasional bloodworm.


1) Your water parameters

ammonia and nitrIte = 0, nitrAte <20, temp 78

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

105 gallon planted tank with co2
lace rock and driftwood

• 4 SAPs
  8 serpae tetras
  6 hatchetfish
  7 ottos
  5 julii corys
  1 angelfish (I know...)

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

20-30% water change every 2 weeks (I try for every week, but it's usually every 2 weeks)
daily feedings with off days. flake food and algae wafers for the community, snails, freeze dried and frozen bloodworms for the puffer staple. occasional frozen shrimp.

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

the puffer was showing signs before this, but I did rescape the tank and switch from sand to eco complete substrate. fish stayed in the tank and did fine. I used some left over safe start to prevent a mini cycle.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it?

established for 7 months as community, puffers added 6 weeks ago.
fishless cycle with ammonia and established filter media squeezings and then safe start before adding fish.

[puffchella]

*edited to add a better pic

few pics...

here's the little guy



2 of the other puffers


the tank

[puffchella]

I should also mention that I have done a 40% water change immediately after swapping out the substrate (wednesday) and then another 25-30% today when the puffer started showing signs of labored breathing. the tank has a pressurized CO2 system during the day and I run an air stone at night. I turned on the air stone all day today to see if it would help with the labored breathing, but so far there has been no change.

[Myaj]

Looks like there was a small injury that is growing some fungus now.. Wow, I've been off the site way too long to remember what to treat puffers with for fungus, but I know most meds aren't safe. Pimafix I think? Wait for someone else to verify, but I would say very, very clean water (daily water changes for a bit) and possibly treat with some Pimafix or just the good clean water might help. Try to get the nitrates down around 10 or so if you can (depending on tap water readings, might be hard to do).

[puffchella]

it does look fungal since the fin is really cloudy. Is primafix the same as melafix? would that be safe in a planted tank or should I set up a hospital tank?

my nitrAtes are probably lower than 10 since it's planted, but I haven't actually tested for natrAtes since the substrate change over earlier this week. I've only been monitoring ammonia and nitrIte to keep an eye out for a mini cycle. I'll test nitrates tomorrow for sure.

[Myaj]

Melafix is more of a skin soother for injuries, stress.

Pimafix is for fungal issues, they can be used together, and are safe for plants.

You probably don't need to do a hospital tank just because of the Pimafix, but it would be more cost effective to treat a smaller tank than a big one, you can do massive daily water changes easier on a hospital tank, and if there is anything dangerous, you are keeping it away from the other fish (also if he does die, you won't have a dead body polluting the tank if you don't find it immediately). So it wouldn't be a bad idea, if you have the equipment and are willing to do at least daily water changes.. but not absolutely necessary.

[Pufferpunk]

I'd also treat for IPs right away & start ich treatment. They are going though some stress & highly likely to get the parasite, next. Heat/salt method but lots more WC (80% every other day). Your plants may not like the salt.

[puffchella]

You probably don't need to do a hospital tank just because of the Pimafix, but it would be more cost effective to treat a smaller tank than a big one, you can do massive daily water changes easier on a hospital tank, and if there is anything dangerous, you are keeping it away from the other fish (also if he does die, you won't have a dead body polluting the tank if you don't find it immediately). So it wouldn't be a bad idea, if you have the equipment and are willing to do at least daily water changes.. but not absolutely necessary.

I have a lot of tanks, but I don't have any currently cycled filters to set them up. my 37 gallon is only midway through a fishless cycle but I have a cycled 5 gallon for snails that I could probably use. DO yuo know if the meds are safe for snails?

[puffchella]

I'd also treat for IPs right away & start ich treatment. They are going though some stress & highly likely to get the parasite, next. Heat/salt method but lots more WC (80% every other day). Your plants may not like the salt.

something to consider, but salt is pretty much out of the question for this tank. the other 3 SAPs are happy as can be, but it never hurts to be safe. what about a salt dip and bringing the tank up to 80?

[Pufferpunk]

All need to be treated for everything I listed, they share water.

[bertie 83]

A huge +1 to above. They will all share any infections or parasites they may have. Can you not move the plants temporarily? It's a nuisance I know, but you really do need to treat as pp recommended

[Myaj]

Internal parasite treatment is treated food so that won't hurt the plants, salt and heat might and personally, I may be in the minority here, if there's no sign of ich I wouldn't treat for it. I'd aim for really clean water and the pimafix if you have it. You've already exposed everyone in the tank to any parasites (internal or external) by putting the SAP's in there, so might as well treat everyone.

A hospital tank doesn't need to be cycled FYI, since ideally you'll be doing daily water changes anyways.. but grabbing a handful of decor (gravel, decorations, plants, etc) and tossing that in there generally will help. If you can't do the daily water changes, don't try to use an uncycled hospital tank.

[puffchella]

update: he's still very listless and often hangs out at the bottom of the tank or in a plant to stabilize himself between swims. his tail fin is no longer clamped as much and he fans it out on occasion, but it seems more rigid than it should be. he's also getting really skinny since he's stopped eating. the other puffers didn't seem to like the pimafix and melafix when I first added it, but have since returned to normal.

I'm treating the tank with pimafix and melafix and I've raised the temp to 80 degrees (day 3). I was going to go to 82 initially, but the sick puffer was hanging out at the top of the tank so I backed off to 79/80. I'm running my air pump all day now and the labored breathing isn't quite as bad, but still a problem. it's very clearly a fungal infection and I hope that I'm not too late. I did a couple more 40% water changes prior to starting pimafix and my nitrates are minuscule (0-5). PH is up to 7.4 from my normal 7.0/7.2 (tap is 7.6).

after dealing with the fungus I'll likely treat for parasites by soaking some food, but currently the sick puffer is not eating. it's day 4 or 5 since I've seen him eat anything of substance and day 3 or 4 since I've seen him eat anything at all. I tried to coax him into eating something last night and he wouldn't even take a blood worm from in front of his nose. I did take the time to clean up the fungus a little bit while I had him in the net (underwater, of course).

he's still swimming around a little bit, but I think he's gotten worse. he even has some discoloration in the dorsal region likely from the spread of the fungus. hopefully it's a matter of the dark before the light and a sign of progress.

some questions. with him not eating, would it be better to set up a hospital tank for him and treat him with heat and salt and treat the entire hospital tank for IPs while continuing treatment of both tanks with pimafix? I picked up some safe start and prime just in case. if it would get him to eat, I could resume feeding him medicated foods.

[bertie 83]

I would not use heat and salt on just one, it's pointless as he would get reinfected when added back, if ich is present of course. So swerve that and try garlic soaking the food, if you haven't already.

[puffchella]

sorry to say that the little guy didn't pull through.

I have a few more days to treat the tank with pimafix (just to make sure that fungus isn't anywhere else and to be safe) and then I'll begin treating the other puffers for IPs (though they remain unaffected).

thanks for the help anyways!