Pahaka Sick

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!

Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
stacyjo
Puffer Fry
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:13 am
Location (country): us

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by stacyjo »

Pufferpunk wrote:This looks very severe. Poor thing! :( Are you sure you've never used meds in there? Definitely looks bacterial. Anything other than Maracyn will destroy your biological filter but at this point, he is desperate for help. Melafix/Pimafix/Maracyn all together, is what I'd recommend. Do 80% WC, to get that nitrate down.

I don't understand, "Water changes- 50gallons a day it is on a dip..Longer on the weekends". If all you have is a fahaka & a few bala sharks & doing 50g partials daily, your nitrate shouldn't be that high. Are you cleaning the substrate? What does your filtration media look like?

What's a "couple tor"?
Severe is what landed us here......

There is NO meds in the tank. There never has been any meds in this tank, just salt. I don't care about damaging bio, there's a fully running seasoned ray system I can rob bio from, there's thousands of scrubbies in there, K1, or ceramic rings.

We understand puffers are sensative, BUT at the same time so are Potomotrygon species, which is what we raise. Our medicine cabinet contains quite a few meds for the rays, one of those meds is Binox. I have used Binox on other very sensative fish such as Hydrolycus species without ill effects as long as bio is supplemented.



The puffer's tank is on a drip system. It gets roughly 50 gallons of new water EVERY day. I'd love to tell you all about the nitrate being zero, but who here is going to believe that we are able to keep nitrates on a monster Fahaka's tank in check? Nobody. So I gave you the typical readings of a freshly cleaned sump. I bet they are back to nothing today.

There WAS 4 bala sharks in there. 1 died last night. a "few Tor" is 7. The biggest one MIGHT be 5" most in the 2-3" neighborhood. The balas are all under 4". The Fahaka is about 15". The lil Tor were divided off from the puffer for months. The divider kept getting knocked down and each time there was no evidence of anyone not getting along, so we just pulled the divider. that was about 3-4 weeks ago.

Really don't see a bunch of little "minnows" stressing the puffer enough to be a problem, but who knows. No matter now as they are all divided off again.

The filter- We run an ac 110 on there with a AQ 802 for circulation. The water leaves the tank via overflow and runs through a Tidepool 2 where all drawers get progressively finer mechanical media. After the bio wheel in the TP2 it enters our sump full of submerged (air fed) pot scrubbies. Probobly 30 gallons worth. The entire sump was cleaned at the first sign of problems. returned via mag pump.

Tell you the honest truth, we came here to this site to see if anyone could ID the disease that is likely going to take our puffer cause you all want to sit and coffee talk about tank size and water parameters. IF no one knows what the stuff on the puffer is just say that so we can look elsewhere for answers.

Thank you very much, AL (Stacyjo's bf)
User avatar
sevenyearnight
Former Staff Member
Posts: 1894
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:41 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: T. nigroviridis
Balki Bartokomous
Location (country): USA
Location: South Carolina

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by sevenyearnight »

Sir, I said nothing about your tank size, which is well above adequate size, and I believe your infection is bacterial. I gave you the best advice on medication to my ability, and I looked up Binox, and said I found no warning on sensitive fish. The medications I have experience with and know are safe, that could treat a bacterial infection are Maracyn, melafix, and pimafix.
I asked how long the other fish had been present to determine if they may be what introduced the illness, not for any other reason.
No one implied that the fish stressing your puffer. Many people here keep other fish with our puffers, although it's not recommended, so for many of us to say something would be hypocritical. I have all of my freshwater tanks at 0 nitrate, I have to dose KNO3 for the plants for this reason. My marine puffer's tank always has undetectable nitrate. There is no reason we wouldn't believe your nitrate is 0, it was surprising to hear it was 20 - 40, I figured by your set up it would be very low to undetectable.
I hope you understand that I'm just trying to help, none of my questions were meant to be insulting.
Please keep us updated on his progress.
Image
User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32987
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Greenville, SC
Contact:

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by Pufferpunk »

I still don't know what a tor is?

How much salt is in there?

If that med is safe for your rays I'd go ahead & use it on the puffers, keeping a close eye on the parameters for any biological crash, as you well know.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
stacyjo
Puffer Fry
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:13 am
Location (country): us

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by stacyjo »

I apologize for getting short but watching a 6+ year old puffer circle the drain with little to answers from anyone is pretty tough to swallow. I understand you guys are just trying to help, and we appreciate that, but right now we are just trying to get an ID on this stuff that's killing him/her.

From what I know I really wanted to try the Binox several days ago, but thought that a stop over here would be wiser then throwing my ray meds at a puffer.

The puffer has red ulcers that weren't there last night. I don't know if this is a sign of them worsening OR if it is a sign of healing (from the high salt content) which is around 3.5-4 lbs/100 gallons.

I'm weary of Maracin as I've treated several bacterial problems in rays with Binox after failed attempts with Maracyn and have had good results.

I have no problem tracking down Maracyn but time is running out and if Maracyn is gonna do a half arsed job like it has in the past I'd rather not waste the time and just kill it with Binox.

I'm sure anyone in this situation would realize that urgency can cause frustration..... lol
stacyjo
Puffer Fry
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:13 am
Location (country): us

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by stacyjo »

Tor = Masheer. Exact species is unknown and may remain that way as we may have undescribed species. Only time will tell as they must be grown out before it's possible to properly ID.

Salt content is 4lbs/100 gallons.
User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32987
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Greenville, SC
Contact:

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by Pufferpunk »

Although I do understand your extreme worry, I do not understand your impatience & frustration. You ARE getting good answers here. Keep in mind, most folks are at work right now. The reason I asked you about the salt is that this is strictly a FW fish. The symptoms of the skin peeling off looks like possible breakdown from burning of salt. I would never recommend more than 1 tbsp of table salt/10g with a FW fish, for medicinal purposes. The red sounds like further bacterial problems. I would do an 80% WC on there, removing a lot of that salt & start your ray meds on him. One of the best things you can do for him is to add Melafix & Pimafix.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
User avatar
sevenyearnight
Former Staff Member
Posts: 1894
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:41 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: T. nigroviridis
Balki Bartokomous
Location (country): USA
Location: South Carolina

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by sevenyearnight »

Treat him with the Binox, when I said I saw no warnings against it, I guess I should have said, yes go ahead, I thought you were going to go ahead with that.
Honestly, without being able to do a culture like a doctor or scientist could if he would be able to get to your house, an exact ID on a bacterial infection is virtually impossible. Binox says it treats both negative and positive bacterial, and fungus. You just have to treat broad range.
Act quickly, I didn't realize you were waiting on more.
Image
User avatar
sevenyearnight
Former Staff Member
Posts: 1894
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:41 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: T. nigroviridis
Balki Bartokomous
Location (country): USA
Location: South Carolina

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by sevenyearnight »

+1 to removing the salt as it's probably irritating the situation.
Image
stacyjo
Puffer Fry
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:13 am
Location (country): us

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by stacyjo »

Pufferpunk wrote:Although I do understand your extreme worry, I do not understand your impatience & frustration. You ARE getting good answers here. Keep in mind, most folks are at work right now. The reason I asked you about the salt is that this is strictly a FW fish. The symptoms of the skin peeling off looks like possible breakdown from burning of salt. I would never recommend more than 1 tbsp of table salt/10g with a FW fish, for medicinal purposes. The red sounds like further bacterial problems. I would do an 80% WC on there, removing a lot of that salt & start your ray meds on him. One of the best things you can do for him is to add Melafix & Pimafix.
We posted pics hoping that you guys have seen this crap before. Seems odd that the puffer exhibits this stuff yet the balas just show ich (which this salt content will nuke in a couple days) and the Tor hardly show anything. Apparently what we have is an enomoly as it seems the puffer experts are stumped.

The peeling started long before the first salt dose. After each WC and salt dose the slime almost seems to go away. I wouldn't just up and dump that kinda salt in a tank. We started with 1 lb/100 and have been going up to 4 lbs/100. Which is as high as I feel comfy with.

I can add Pima but I've seen it irritate fish more then my salt content.....

Thank you guys for the advice. We will update tonight.
User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32987
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Greenville, SC
Contact:

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by Pufferpunk »

I've never known of using more than 1 tsp/g salt to combat ich for any FW fish.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28113
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
User avatar
sevenyearnight
Former Staff Member
Posts: 1894
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:41 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: T. nigroviridis
Balki Bartokomous
Location (country): USA
Location: South Carolina

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by sevenyearnight »

I don't really consider it so much of an anomaly, ich often does lead to to secondary bacterial and fungal infections.
Just like if you posted pictures of a human wound or infection, without an actual visit to a doctor, what advice you get online is limited.
Diseases in fish are not always easy to diagnose specifically, unless there is some way to get a sample, and have a veterinarian on hand.
So, that is why I recommended medications that cover a broad range of bacterial and fungal diseases. It's a time waster to attempt to get a very a specific answer, when it's impossible online by pictures alone.
Image
stacyjo
Puffer Fry
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:13 am
Location (country): us

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by stacyjo »

"Thickness" is dead.

Picked up in the beginning of 04 when just a couple inches. Solid 15" now.

Gonna miss this fish. A lot :(
User avatar
xrayjeeper83
Mbu Puffer
Posts: 4167
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 9:31 pm
Gender: Male
My Puffers: Fahaka named Bloat
Abei named Huey
GSP named Bacon
Location (country): USA
Location: Orange Park, FL

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by xrayjeeper83 »

Damn that sucks to hear. sorry ofr your lose
RTR wrote:Fahakas do not have tank mates, they may have swimming food reserves.
User avatar
scpion
Fahaka Puffer
Posts: 672
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:57 am
My Puffers: 23in Mbu, donated to SEA Aquarium
4in Fahaka 150g
Location (country): singapore

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by scpion »

Around a year back I had a pair of GSP(or saba I think).. One of them exhibited some thing quite similar to yours.. the red ulcer sound so familiar.. They "thing " happened so fast.. over a couple of days.. pimafix and melafix didnt help that time.. I thought that was pretty much the end of him.. I put it down myself to end the suffering..

No one could exactly ID what disease it was but everyone gave good advice and tried to help but we are no doctors here.. and that sucks..

Sorry to hear your loss..
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
I am not a Troll, I am just pissed..!
User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32987
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Greenville, SC
Contact:

Re: Pahaka Sick

Post by Pufferpunk »

Wow so sad... :(
Some kind of "flesh-eating disease." They're fast acting & no known cure.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Post Reply