filtration

[RTR]

Sumps as such are remarkably useful and the specific use(s) are many and variable - they give you extra non-display volume.

A UV can be useable, but I would never consider such as necessary and would never, and have never used such routinely, as they are non-specific (yes, xrayjeeper83, that very likely was me) and can cause as much good bacteria and infusoria death as unwanted bacteria killing. If you have an algae problem, correct it. If you already own a UV, they certainly can help clear FW Ich - but I would never buy one just for that use.

AIMHO, YMMV

[bertie 83]

was thinking about buying ontop of my filtration as an extra, but if its gonna damage my cycled tank then no chance, so does it take out much of the good stuff compared to the bad? is it hazardous to my tank? or is it just pointless? just hit summer here its really hot, so this is when i start my battle with algae from excess light, might block that side of the tank with paper or something to stop the sun from hitting it

[Pufferpunk]

If the sun is hitting your tank, you might consider moving it.

[luna1580]

hey, this may seem to come out of left-field, but my years of turtle keeping have made me a HUGE fan of the rena filstar XP line for high-waste-making freshwater critters. i have routinely used XP3's for everything from 30-100g (USg) turtle tanks -yeah, i mostly "super over filter" those smaller-tank guys for sure and always (and i ran multiple filters of various types if needed on my biggest tanks as well.) i know i could have used a smaller XP filter or HOB for my current 29g tank (only 2-thirds full for a 2 year old midlands painted) but my thought was i'd need the bigger filter soon enough, and i've had no probs with the "too big!" filter these past 3 months (spray bar at the water surface return), so it's just an investment in that turt's future tanks....

to me these "XPs" are simple to use and clean, sturdy, and oh-so-easy to customize the filter baskets to your exact wants as far as physical/chemical/bio filtration stages in big, easy to use baskets (and for any filter be sure to buy poly-fiber from a local fabric-type store in bulk, i use poly batting sold by the yard, or you could use loose "pillow fill type" poly fiber for that layer of a filter -SO much cheaper than "for this filter" LFS/LPS stuff. and i use my own layers of foam, "matrix" medium, crushed coral, etc. as needed in my baskets. and have been making my own HOB filter re-fillers w/the same using a stripped plastic base of an old "filter insert"......(you can add bulk carbon if you want it, or any other medium as well. i do mine with just floss, a finer felt layer, and some matrix in a separate mesh bag. and various tanks have other stuff directly on/around the intake tube as well)

i have also used HOT magnum canisters, magnum C canisters, HOB penguin (bio-wheels), and few random HOB that were petsmart/co current house brands..... i liked most of those, and i used purigen when i used either of the magnums (for some very delicate turts), but i seriously have gotten as good/better results with the filstars (i've only used 3's) and you could put purigen in one's final basket if you wanted to....

but yeah, for large and dirty fresh-water i will always vote for the rena-filstars (unless i find something better. i'm not ideologically aligned with these things!) they seem to be little used in LPS's, but i love them. had my first since 2002 and it's still working flawlessly. and i find it easy to customize the in/out-take tubes w/tubing and stuff from any home-depot-type store if need be.

separately, one good word to be said about the marineland biowheel line (i know many people hate them and see them as nitrate factories, but i've never had that issue and generally like them for HOB -then again i do have many live plants in those tanks.....) is that twice when i had an issue with a part i felt was noisy/defective/whatever they had GREAT customer service by phone and sent me new parts (plus bonus free filter inserts i didn't mention) very fast and totally for free.

anyway, just wanted to offer up my experience. i am still a bit new to puffs, but aquatic turts are at least as "messy" in the eating and the end result of eating, so i'm confident about this filter recommendation/review from my own use.

[bertie 83]

thought about moving it but big tank and small lounge limits me. on a good note think i sussed my leak, took apart 2028 (again!!!!!!) and found another removable part with another oring not sure what its called small clear plastic part with green lines on, a small spring and red moving part inside - some sort of presssure valve? anyhow oring looks knackered so gonna try replacing that. if this fails might it be possible to use head to power sump system if submerged leak shouldnt be an issue? thanks for all info u guys are awesome

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

Luna, I also heard great things about those rena filstars too and came close buying one but with it being pricey. I sadly had to turn away.

[RTR]

bertie 83: A UV will not affect your established biofilter. It might not do anything good for if used on a tank during cycling however. It is the balanced water column bacteria and infusoria which are damaged in established tanks.

[luna1580]

Luna, I also heard great things about those rena filstars too and came close buying one but with it being pricey. I sadly had to turn away.

yeah, they do seem to run a bit steep. but i've managed to find the XP3 level at various places online for $120 USD or less (including shipping) -the same thing may be offered in a local "petsmart-type" store for $220+, if they offer it at all...

but i love that i have used the same unit for over a decade and it can handle anything from 30G to over 100G equally well. i just bought my second 6 months ago, and expect it to last at least as long.

but the truth is i like most filters that allow me to easily create new filter media on my own while having strong GPH flow rates and simple to maintain hardware. in this case it seems that all one needs for any HOB is a simple design w/a fairly large filter media capacity.

semi-OT, but i just got a whisper i40 internal filter for a new pelomedusa subrufa turt housed in a weird wide tank (perfect for their "bottom walkin" habits) that i thought would never work. but it has a pump akin to a 40g+HOB filter and i can alter the media, so it's been great.

puffs are the same -you can often alter the filter media and/or intake to make it perfect for your tank. so the most important thing is a sturdy base filter that allows easy insets of various filter media, be they home-made or pre-fab.

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

Luna, I also heard great things about those rena filstars too and came close buying one but with it being pricey. I sadly had to turn away.

yeah, they do seem to run a bit steep. but i've managed to find the XP3 level at various places online for $120 USD or less (including shipping) -the same thing may be offered in a local "petsmart-type" store for $220+, if they offer it at all...

but i love that i have used the same unit for over a decade and it can handle anything from 30G to over 100G equally well. i just bought my second 6 months ago, and expect it to last at least as long.

but the truth is i like most filters that allow me to easily create new filter media on my own while having strong GPH flow rates and simple to maintain hardware. in this case it seems that all one needs for any HOB is a simple design w/a fairly large filter media capacity.

semi-OT, but i just got a whisper i40 internal filter for a new pelomedusa subrufa turt housed in a weird wide tank (perfect for their "bottom walkin" habits) that i thought would never work. but it has a pump akin to a 40g+HOB filter and i can alter the media, so it's been great.

puffs are the same -you can often alter the filter media and/or intake to make it perfect for your tank. so the most important thing is a sturdy base filter that allows easy insets of various filter media, be they home-made or pre-fab.

$120 for an xp3 is a heck of a deal. I would buy one at that price in a heartbeat. My local PetSmart sells them for around $220 but at that price I can buy a brand new Fluval FX5 on ebay.

For me, caniter filter with muti stage baskets (marineland c-series, rena flistar, fluval, some of the newwer ehiems, and even the SUNSUN's) is a must for people that dont have the extra time for maintance. Now I love AC HOB filters as well because they are easy to clean, no cartridge, and pays for itself with having to buyin those messy cartridges all the time. Btw, bertie you could learn about the different options from all this.

[sevenyearnight]

I really want to get one of those SunSun filters.
But since my magnum 350 seems to be working for now, although it's a huge PITA, so I might just get their separate UV filter.

[Clowntje]

I never used uv filters so cant help u with that.

Since the equipment is hubby's work especially on the bigger tank. He has most say in it. and he swears by Eheim. We have 2 pro 3 of Eheim on our Clown tanks and they barely fit in the cabinet.

Now we are looking into some pressurefilter from ponds to replace the 2 jbl which came with our 2 meter tank.
I got that tip from a dutch forum bassicly they have 2 times the turnover than eheim but also the same powerusage. certainly worthy of looking into if u want the huge turnover with less powerusage. they are here also much much cheaper.

[RTR]

Turnover are only important in relation to efficiency. Folks try to compare turnovers without considering efficiency. For example HOBs are notoriously inefficient, so required high numbers of turnovers per hour. Canisters are much more efficient, so require fewer turnovers per hour to do the same job. Eheims do tend to aim for high efficiency rather than high turnovers per hour. You can only compare turnovers per unit time validly on items of equal efficiency, otherwise you have to factor in both efficiency and turnovers together.

You cannot directly compare apples and oranges.

[luna1580]

Turnover are only important in relation to efficiency. Folks try to compare turnovers without considering efficiency. For example HOBs are notoriously inefficient, so required high numbers of turnovers per hour. Canisters are much more efficient, so require fewer turnovers per hour to do the same job. Eheims do tend to aim for high efficiency rather than high turnovers per hour. You can only compare turnovers per unit time validly on items of equal efficiency, otherwise you have to factor in both efficiency and turnovers together.

that makes sense. but how can one calculate/more casually observe "efficiency"?

all i've been able to notice is that canister filters seem to visually keep a tank cleaner and test better for longer than other filters that might have a similar GPH rating -BUT the results of any filter type will be also greatly influenced by what kind of filter media is being used and how it is physically arranged in the filter.....

for example, a HOB filter outfitted w/one of those pre-fab inserts may do a better or worse (usually worse in my experience) job in manually cleaning water and maintaining good water chemistry than the exact same filter outfitted with a a different home-made-blend of media...... doesn't that mean the "efficiency" of the filter has been altered?

[RTR]

You are correct in that filter media and its packing (sequence of media in the water flow) has a huge impact on efficiency. But there are also several efficiencies involved - particle removal (mechanical filtration), sometimes chemical filtration, and biological filtration all have different requirements.

Canisters and HOBs as a rule are designed to carry any or all filtration types (I do not use them that way myself), but generally and most efficiently there are one to several mechanical filtration media sequentially first in the water flow - these gather suspended but undissolved particles from the water. Next would be chemical (if used) and/or biological filter media. Those two both work best with protection from suspended particles, so work best after the mechanical filters.

Basically canisters were designed to hold a lot more media than HOBS and to give better control over the return flow to the tank. HOBs hold far less media, but offer much easier access to that media, so upkeep is simple. By and large, most are not good at at providing tailored even flow throughout the tank, plus they as a group suffer from media bypass as they must allow for media clogging without overflow outside the tank. Mechanical media really needs very frequent removal and rinsing (believe it or not, daily rinsing is ideal but rarely done). Chemical or biological media work best on dissolved materials in the water, so in theory need well prefiltered water - then they need attention rarely.

All the above means that in practice, the several types of filtration do not really fit well together, which is why I separate my filtration into several units per tank. The largest volume of my media are mechanical. Biofilters and chemical filters are much smaller in volume (and turnover) but are all prefiletered mechanically. Those are rarely disturbed on my tanks. I do not use much chemical filtration myself, as I am a water partial nut and that tends to be less expensive than chemical filtration. I also tend to avoid filter media which require replacement - I tend to use more sponges for mechanical and some biological filtering of varied density (particle size capture) which have indefinite lifespans when maintained. My equipment is also brands and models that I know have maximum lifespans. I have been doing this a long time and have stockpiles of equipment, so tend to multiple filters of the same brand and model - spares and media are always available immediately. Most hobbyists are still learning what sort of filtration devices fit what they need to do and are user-friendly for them. I am someone who loves new toys, so still test alternate techniques frequently, but basically I know what I like and do not mind keeping up. That is a huge personal advantage. The majority of web hobbyists are still exploring the possibilities, and playing with different tools is always a learning process. But it is the only way you can really learn what fits your willingness to actually maintain and the needs of the setup as well.

Because I run a number of tanks in a limited area, heat load is another issue, and power use in non-trivial. Along with dumping waste heat, it runs up the electric bill. One tank or a couple of linked tanks in a common-use room is not going to affect the heat and moisture level too much . A lot of tanks definitely can and do. In summer they dive cooling cost up, but in winter may contribute to comfort without much difference in background operating costs. So I tend to like efficiency of operation so long as it does not adversely affect the tanks.

It is all a juggle. You learn what works for you, what does the job you want in a way you can live with and keep up. And those factors weigh in for everybody a bit differently. Due to age and some handicaps, I tend to operate the things I am most familiar with and to avoid tasks I can no longer do easily. I have not carried water in years, I pump instead. I tend to automate more and more things, or semi-automate at least. Most folks are still way too young in the hobby for that to be a major consideration, for me it is the difference in whether or not I can continue to operate multiple tanks.

You can get lots of suggestions on-line. Whether or not they suit both you and your fish is however purely personal. PP and I both run a lot of tanks. But our equipment use is quite different. We each know what works for us, and we are not twins at all. We do still both learn from each other and even from the rankest novices on the boards. A good hobby never allows you to stop learning - that sort of stagnation would drive me out of tanks quickly.

Some things are always wrong, or incorrect in application. Many techniques are really just personal choices. The principles are the only applicable generalities. All the advice offered by any of us - whether novice or old hand - is worth considering, but the final choice is highly personal. So long as the result provides for good water quality and healthy long-lived fish, the options of how you get there are always personal choices. What I will and can do is right for me so long as it dos the jobs we all need. My techniques are not always the same as PP's or anyone else's choice, but so long as the critters are healthy and long lived, the route taken is less significant than the results obtained. Results matter, techniques are personal choices.

It is important for everybody to see that difference. I have tested or used for some period of time all of the filtration and water management techniques of which I am aware, but my personal choices are not the best for everyone. My goals of water which changes the least between partials and is always as close as I can keep it to the source water (what I or anyone uses for partials) are generalities which apply to everybody. The particular devices and techniques used are personal choices.

[bertie 83]

it worked the £8 part fixed my eheim. thanks for all the input in this matter you guys are great!! so both eheims working brilliantly but really want to follow up on the sump idea also, now understand the basics and have built a sump yay!!!! now is there a way of getting water to the sump without drilling my biggest household investment? i cant think of or find anyway of doing this thanks again peops