The Tankmate Experiment!

[Woland]

"Tyson" Tetraodon abei, is an opportunistic serial killer.



After an accident (tank cracking while I was absent, fish surviving in a small puddle), I had to dump him in my daughters 15 gallon community tank.
The tank contained a shoal of tetras and an Ancistrus. I suspected an orgy of carnage & blood lust, but to my surprise this mix worked out ok.
After a time I moved in with my girlfriend and promptly set up a 45 gallon for Tyson with fast moving friends.
As usual he paced the corner of the tank for weeks and weeks until finaly setting down in a chosen spot, well hidden from prying eyes.
Yesterday he had been utterly invisible for the last three weeks, food disappearing in the night.
I concluded that Tysons entertainment value was at a truly all time low.

Popping into a LFS I fell in love with a large & beautiful breeding pair of Convict Chiclides (Archocentrus nigrofasciatus).
Bought them and introduced them into Tysons tank.
He was offended, shocked and started pacing his corner as a madfish.

There has so far been aggravation from all involved parties with the tetras nervously huddling together as innocent bystanders.
The convicts are not to be messed with though.
If Tyson intrudes on their territory, or in fact shows interest in added shrimp, they will straighten him out.
Had to feed him separately last night and the cons retrieved and stored remaining shrimp after he was finished.

I will be adding some Odessa-barbs (Puntius ticto) later today (they eat cyanobacteria!).
Happy to try a community tank again.
Long time since...

Pictures will follow.

[jnheinz]

Tetras, Convicts, and a Puffer.. LOL. Good luck with that. It may work, but that tank needs to be big. Good thing is they were introduced in a nice order. I wouldn't expect that to last though. I remember putting my Target Puffer (temporarily) in my giant danio/cory planted tank.. By the time I had my Puffer's hex tank ready a week later, the corys were so incredibly scared from all the ambush attempts, and 2 giant danios had been eaten. I actually witnessed the big fat target puffer catching a full-sized giant danio (which is what I believe to be one of the fastest schooling fish), and cutting it in half...a very pathetic sight which prompted me to get the tank up and running quicker. Once they get the mindset in their brains that those fish are food, they are toast, and must be moved asap.

Just my 2 cents of putting the ambush puffers in with schoolers or catfish.

[Hilly]

Interested to see how this goes Woland, might be tempted to give it a go with mine since he hardly uses any of the bigger tank.

[Woland]

No problems so far.
Added 12 Odessa-barbs, a small Pleco and 10 small SAEs.
The Convicts are digging restlessly in the gravel, preparing their love nest.

Tyson is NOT happy about the new world.
Pacing, pacing, pacing, but no signs of real aggression.
He tried to visit the Convicts territory, but was sent off with his tail beetween his ehhh... tail? as the convicts charged at him simultanously.

I would like to point out that this experiment is something Ive been contemplating for some time now.
Mixing a target puffer with a breeding couple of largish, territorial & rather aggressive chiclids, using fast-moving, shoaling fishes as dither.
The all important rule is of course to be aware of the more than possible end result; sudden death for all non-puffers.
Yet; I have a hunch that this might work out nicely.

Pictures tomorrow evening.

[Boxermom]

Tyson is NOT happy about the new world.
Pacing, pacing, pacing, but no signs of real aggression.
He tried to visit the Convicts territory, but was sent off with his tail beetween his ehhh... tail? as the convicts charged at him simultanously.

See, that's why I wouldn't do it. I've seen what happened after the mollies terrorized and harrassed my GSP and the long-lasting effects that has had on him. I wouldn't subject another fish to that again.

[Woland]

Well; I think you are missing the point, Boxermom.
One of the many things that attracts me to Puffers ist their individual temperament.
Tyson is the kind of puffer which will pace for a week after minor alterations in the tank.
I will be more than content if Tyson finds it in himself to function in a community-tank.
Probably do him good...

It is not a matter of the convicts harassing him, it is a matter of territorial behaviour.
If he stays out of their way; no problem. This seems to be dawning on him.
I would be a very poor Aquarist if I allowed any fish to suffer harassment over an extended period of time.
Tyson is sulking...

(Harassed by Mollies? ).

[Nick]

You'd be suprissed, some mollies will chase ANY fish they are in a tank with, enjoying chase-tag. My GSP Shakespeare was irritated to no end by Mr. Moses, his molly tankmate, following him every moment, despite no aggression. The simple act of following made him NUTS, he'd pace and pace and pace. He knew he COULD kill Mr. Moses, if he ever showed his jaws Mr. Moses would flee, but he just hated the constant attention and for some reason didn't want to actually follow through and BITE with that scary beak.

[Pufferpunk]

Here's my experience with a "nown" killer, my Fahaka puffer, Filbert.

At 5", I moved him from his solitary existance, into a 55g that housed 2 plecos (about the same size as the puffer) & a softshell turtle. Within 2 days, the whole back end of the turtle's shell was scallopped. He was removed. Filbert continued to live wth the plecos, with no more than an occasional tail nip.

When Filbert was 7", they were all moved into his now 125g. After about a year, I decided to try a rainbow shark, then a redtail shark. Both have been in there for about 4 years & have grown quite large. My next attempt was to add a school of neons. All were gone within a week. Then a school of tiger barbs. They also grew quite large, but within a year, they had all been picked off. I added a large, 8" goldspot pleco. She's actually the Queen of the tank. He's never touched her. A friend had a 3" frontosa that was so mean he klilled his large pleco, so I thought he would hold up to Filbert. I was right. There are a few nips in his tail & dorsal though. He kicks Filbert out of his cave, so does the goldspot. My clown loaches were getting quite large in the 90g, so they moved in. No nips at all. I also had a Lancer catfish that was outgrowing my 90g & he moved in. No issues. Then the yellow-finnde chalcious was getting too big for the 90. He has an occasional nip on his tail. I decided to make my 90g into a Discus tank & moved my Bosmani rainbow in the 125. Within a week, Filbert had bitten a huge V in the fish's gut, mid-section. I couldn't believe the fish was still alive. Seems no vital organs were munched & he still has a small v there today but is totally healed. No other bites since then. About 7 months ago, I added a beautiful pair of adult firemouths, 5th generation. Well, as cichlid pairs do, they recently have been a huge disruption in the tank, locking lips, flaring gills & chasing everyone about, even Filbert. I believe this really ticked him off, because he started nippping at them pretty badly & taking his anger out on some of the other fish. They were rehomed yesterday. About 2 weeks ago, a customer of mine said she might get evicted & she wanted me to take her 17 1/2 year old elephant noses. After being in a 30g their whole lives, never being able to do more than swim in circles & not having tankmates for a decade, they were understandably, pretty frantic. Seems their frenzied swimming about really bothered Filbert & when I came in to check on them later, 1 EN had a bite out of it's tail & the other had 2 bites. I was frantic myself, by that point. Their tails are fleshy, not like the other fish with thin, bony tails, so I could see their flesh. I started posting about homes for them on my local forums. I prayed they'd make it thru the night. By the next morning they seemed to have settled in & swimming slowly about the tank. Filbert has never touched them again. So, the total tankmates in a 125g, for Filbert are:
12" Goldspot pleco
6" sailfin pleco
10" Yellow-finned chalcius
2 7" Clown loaches
9" Lancer catfish
5" Rainbow shark
6" Redtail shark
5" Bosmani rainbow
7" Frontosa
8" & 9" Elephant noses

They all get a weekly 75% water change. There are 2 AQ 500s & an Eheim 2217.

[Boxermom]

I've been contemplating trying a tankmate of some sort with Linus, but I'm afraid it would end badly after seeing him try to get through the divider repeatedly to get at Justin. I'd love to be able to have a pleco or two or something else on the larger size in his tank but am afraid of risking it, especially with as much as they cost.

[Pufferpunk]

That would be proof enough for me, not to try it. Althou, I hear they are most aggressive to puffers. Maybe try a shark. He's never messed w/mine.

[Woland]

I've been contemplating trying a tankmate of some sort with Linus, but I'm afraid it would end badly after seeing him try to get through the divider repeatedly to get at Justin. I'd love to be able to have a pleco or two or something else on the larger size in his tank but am afraid of risking it, especially with as much as they cost.

And what species might Linus & Justin be?
There is a huge difference between conspecific aggression and aggression directed towards all things moving.

Tyson & his deceased companion Evander was two of the first T. abeis held by a member of this forum.
(Sean had the first; AS BLEEDIN ALWAYS.)
I tried to keep them together in a 45 gallon (they were juvenile specimens), but Tyson went straight for Evanders head & eyes.





As with Fahakas; I would not dream of attempting two abeis together.
I believe them to be solitary creatures (when it comes to their own kind), staying out of each others way unless mating .
An uneducated guess would be that their mating behaviour is a rough & violent bizniz.

Yet; as they are not a piscivore species, and after my assessment of Tysons temperament, I see no reason why this shouldnt have a fair chance of working out.

[Woland]

You'd be suprissed, some mollies will chase ANY fish they are in a tank with, enjoying chase-tag. My GSP Shakespeare was irritated to no end by Mr. Moses, his molly tankmate, following him every moment, despite no aggression. The simple act of following made him NUTS, he'd pace and pace and pace. He knew he COULD kill Mr. Moses, if he ever showed his jaws Mr. Moses would flee, but he just hated the constant attention and for some reason didn't want to actually follow through and BITE with that scary beak.

Sounds like Shakespeare is kinda woozy!


Ive kept Izabella:



with Mollies for the most of her captive life.
She rules the tank with serene dignity, munching Mollie fry in her leisure time.
Goes to prove the diversity of Puffer temperament.

[Woland]

Here's my experience with a "nown" killer, my Fahaka puffer, Filbert.

Filberts a cutie and a very good example when it comes to Puffer behaviour..
My own Fahaka; Babe, grew up sharing tank with a well sized Pleco.
Went on nicely for a year and a half, then one morning the Pleco was gone.
The only trace of it was a few remains of skin & bone.
Seems someone likes a bit of crunch in their edibles...

Babe has been a solitary creature since then, and I firmly believe she will kill anything that appears in her line of sight.

[Boxermom]

Linus is a fahaka, Justin is a palembang. What I've been contemplating is moving my two EBJDs from their 55 into the 125 with Linus. They're all about the same size within less than an inch.

[Corvus]

So many names... Should I start to name them, too?

I've kept GSPs with a number of creatures, among them even fiddler crabs, which are generally seen as a major prey of brackish puffers. The crabs never ever have been touched, only their young have been eaten.

Most fish are individuals and it's hard to predict (maybe it's easier for the keeper) which tank mates will be accepted.

The only fish I have given up to try tankmates with are moray eels. Well possible others come to this conclusion with fahakas/Auriglobus and lurkers. Having seen 2 fahakas living together and even 2 undulatus triggers (for freshwater people, this is the marine version of a chainsaw) I guess anything goes... sometimes.