How many DPs?

Belack1120 · Post by **Belack1120** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:49 pm

I have been reading about SAPs and dwarf puffers being alright together and a few people have told me that if I would like to push the limit in my tank I could add another SAP but I just found a place close to me that sells dwarf puffers. I would kind of like some dwarf puffers because they are alot cheaper than one SAP for $24.00!! My tank has three SAPs in it right now and it is a 35 gallon. So how many dwarf puffers do you think I could put in my tank?

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:08 pm

None, IMO.

Belack1120 · Post by **Belack1120** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:26 pm

fom Blake's brother Connor,
ummmmm, i'm pretty sure that he could put a few in there, and you always seem to be saying things like this, so i would appreciate it if you would just stop posting replies that seem to go against what other members (and mods) think. or atleast post a reason for your response because being a member on monster fish keepers i know first hand what it feels like to not get a reason to go along with a response that has to do with a matter of importance (or atleast important to me)

kass · Post by **kass** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:38 pm

Yeah, he can put as many as he would like in there... it's his tank. Boxermom was simply stating HER opinion, hence the IMO.

Belack1120 · Post by **Belack1120** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:03 pm

Connor again. first of all, am i risking getting blake banned? i realize that she said that it was only her opinion, but still........ i hate it when people do stuff like that. but then again, thats only my opinion

Ariadne · Post by **Ariadne** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:40 pm

Tell us more about your tank, what kind of filtration? is it heavily planted? what is the footprint? The tank I have seen have success with the two different species was very established, had a plethora of aquascaping and was quite over filtered, but if I remember correctly that member did eventually separate the species when they could afford another tank. Honestly this isnt something I myself would try unless I had an extra tank ready if the stuff hit the fan. Established plants etc for the dps to hide in would probably increase any success with this plan also.

crazedpuffer · Post by **crazedpuffer** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:16 pm

I believe Boxermom's dp's were all aggressive (sorry if I'm mistaken) and that is why her opinion is the way it is. Honestly keeping any puffer with any fish is like a flip of a coin, you never know. I've been to pet stores where the dp's are incredibly mean and some where the dp's are in with all different fish. Honestly it's your (risky) choice. If you do do it have another tank ready in case of aggression, and if the SAP or Dp tries to attack through the bag, don't put them together.

Belack1120 · Post by **Belack1120** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:10 pm

My tank has a 55 gallon filter, it is around three feet long, 12 inches wide (from front to back) and something like 18 inches tall. If I do go to get some dwarf puffers I will choose the ones that are getting beat up in the tank and hopefully they will be the least aggressive out of the bunch. I don't think that my SAPs will beat up the dwarf puffers because they don't even bother the 1cm baby platies that are in the tank with them

crazedpuffer · Post by **crazedpuffer** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:27 pm

Be careful the dp doesn't get caught in the filter. Put some form of stocking or psonge or something over it so the dp wont get sucked in.

Belack1120 · Post by **Belack1120** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:43 pm

The sucking is not too strong at the bottom of the pipe that is in the water because there is a second little vent that sucks water about half way up the pipe. I haven't had a fish get stuck to it yet

PuffTheMagicFishy · Post by **PuffTheMagicFishy** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:10 pm

I would also recommend against adding more fish to your tank. First of all, TPF recommends 15 gallons of space per SAP. Many recommend that you can provide 15 gallons for the first, and 10 gallons each for every additional SAP. Going with that logic, since you have 3 SAPs, they require as a minimum 15 + 10 + 10 gallons, equalling 35 gallons required total.

Every DP requires 5 gallons of space.

You have a 35 gallon tank. All that space is needed to meet the minimum living requirements for your SAPs. You also mentioned Platy fry, so I have to assume you have at least some additional fish besides the SAPs in there. So, basically, you already have an overloaded tank. Adding in one or more high-bioload, predatory, and notoriously nippy fish is not a good idea.

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:05 pm

Belack1120 wrote:fom Blake's brother Connor,
ummmmm, i'm pretty sure that he could put a few in there, and you always seem to be saying things like this, so i would appreciate it if you would just stop posting replies that seem to go against what other members (and mods) think. or atleast post a reason for your response because being a member on monster fish keepers i know first hand what it feels like to not get a reason to go along with a response that has to do with a matter of importance (or atleast important to me)

Umm.. no, sorry, I won't. He asked for advice, I gave it. I don't believe you will find many, if any, members recommending that he overstock a puffer tank, particularly by mixing species. If one wants advice about monster fish, monster fish keepers is where to go for advice. If one wants advice on the PROPER way to keep puffers, this is the right place for it. However, do not expect anyone here, particularly the mods, to say what you want them to just because you want them to. If you, or your brother, want honest advice, we'll give it. If you, or your brother, want us to blow smoke up your butt and encourage you to risk your fish, then you're definitely at the wrong place. We care a great deal about the care and welfare of puffers, as well as other living creatures, and won't give advice contrary to what we believe in.

In my opinion, and per our recommendations on the proper care of SAPs, 35 gallons is not sufficient for 3 SAPs and more DPs. This is regardless of whether or not they will get along together, and there is no guarantee that they will.

manutius · Post by **manutius** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:23 am

I thikn it is wrong of you guys to assume that these puffers will get along fine. I personally would not mix any two puffers, that is my opinion, especially considering that your tank is at the uppermost limits just with the SAP's. Also you state that there is little suction on the filter which would indicate to me that the filter is not high turnover which you really need in a puffer tank.

The reason that some answers you get mat be curt and to the point is not out of rudeness, Boxermom simply gave her opinion as have the rest of us. These opinions have been formed by years of experience from many highly respected and reputable fishkeepers.

We only have the health of your fish at heart and you cannot hold that against us, the info is there for you to take on board. Its up to you. You may have heard of these puffers getting along OK but I doubt that has been for the full natural term of these puffers lives.

Belack1120 · Post by **Belack1120** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:43 am

manutius wrote: Also you state that there is little suction on the filter which would indicate to me that the filter is not high turnover which you really need in a puffer tank

What do you mean it has little suction, if you read my whole post you would have read that there is a second vent half way up the pipe that is submurged in the tank. It was designed like that to prevent having fish get stuck to it!

OraLacerta · Post by **OraLacerta** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:17 am

I would also recommend against adding any more puffers, let alone mixing species. SAPs have the identical *minimum* space requirements as Figure Eights do. I have a 35 gallon, just as you do, with two Figure Eights, and some non-puffer tank mates. The tank is heavily decorated with two fake mangrove roots, a couple of rock caves, a large shell, and many plastic plants. On top of that I have an Aquaclear 500 on it that is recommended for 110 gallon tanks.

IMO that filter is perfect for the bio-load in my tank, and I would be very unhappy if I switched it out for my Aquaclear 200 (recommended for 50 gallon tanks). You need to keep in mind that generally the manufacturers of filters will give you a theoretical maximum output of the filter- without all of the tubing, without the extra energy of drawing water upwards from the tank, without pushing water through filter media, etc. Generally the filter's claims are overblown and should be cut in half to have a more realistic idea of its real output. Therefore, my Aquaclear 500 is actually better for a 55 gallon tank, and not adequate for 110 gallons. And my Aquaclear 200 is really only adequate for about 25 gallons, therefore it is on my 20 gallon QT tank.

I know that's a rather long, overly simplified explanation, but I just want to be sure you don't get overly confident with your tank's capacity because you have a filter rated for 55 gallons. My tank is only getting up to about 10 ppm of nitrates between water changes which tells me things are where I want them to be. If I had three Figure Eights in there without tank mates, I would certainly not consider adding another fish, let alone another puffer.

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