Advice anyone?
advice anyone??
Hi... I'm very new to the world of puffers and I took almost a year and a half to get my tnk right so I could have one. i have had a F8 for about a month now (named Mylar due to his balloon-like quality) and he has won my heart. Now, my question is this... I feed him and my blue velvet damsel 2 frozen cubes of zooplankton or brine shrimp and I keep the diet very diverse... I do have to admit he is a pig!! He ends up having a round little belly after every feeding..... I saw mentioned on one of the forum lines that overfeeding might be a problem. How big a problem? I saw also, that people were concerned about pacing... Yesterday, I added to my tank, a tiny green spotted puffer (named him Willie!)... well while he was aclimating in his bag, floating in my 37 gal tank, you could see that Mylar was very excited! He was staring... and staring...As soon as I let the little one out of the bag, they became fast friends... Kinda like a Mom and baby with the little green spot following the F8. Today tho, I noticed that Mylar wasn't much interested in food.... was pacing more than usual and had a string of poop that hasn't broken off all day. What do you suppose is going on with him? Oh, I also did a 1/4 water change yesterday, keeping the salt content on the low side, as I always do in my tank (I think it keeps all my fish healthier). Any advice? Suggestions anyone? I love these little guys and I want them to be happy with me![img][/img]
Heidi C Diener
Heidi:
I have no immediate, brilliant insights into the recently changed condition of Mylar (although I'm fairly certain someone here on TPF will!). I'm initially struck, however -- unless I've misunderstood your content -- that you've mixed an F8, a Damsel, and a GSP in one tank. Leaving the Damsel aside for the present (which I thought was a full marine fish), if you take a look at the very informative Library here, you'll notice that the care of F8's and GSP's, respectively, is very different -- and that they do not, and really cannot, be housed together, for a number of different, essential reasons (including the specific gravity of their water and space requirements). I think this might well be the basis of what could turn out to be a host of challenges to each fish's health -- short & long term.
As you mention you're relatively new to Puffers, however, I'm compelled, again, to recommend the Library -- particular those articles that deal with F8s and GSPs, respectively.
Lastly, as I know that someone here will ask you for your all-important water parameters (nitrates, ammonia, nitrites, etc.) in an effort to begin to figure out what's going on with Mylar & Co., I shall do so now.
I have no immediate, brilliant insights into the recently changed condition of Mylar (although I'm fairly certain someone here on TPF will!). I'm initially struck, however -- unless I've misunderstood your content -- that you've mixed an F8, a Damsel, and a GSP in one tank. Leaving the Damsel aside for the present (which I thought was a full marine fish), if you take a look at the very informative Library here, you'll notice that the care of F8's and GSP's, respectively, is very different -- and that they do not, and really cannot, be housed together, for a number of different, essential reasons (including the specific gravity of their water and space requirements). I think this might well be the basis of what could turn out to be a host of challenges to each fish's health -- short & long term.
As you mention you're relatively new to Puffers, however, I'm compelled, again, to recommend the Library -- particular those articles that deal with F8s and GSPs, respectively.
Lastly, as I know that someone here will ask you for your all-important water parameters (nitrates, ammonia, nitrites, etc.) in an effort to begin to figure out what's going on with Mylar & Co., I shall do so now.
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PetPirate
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Hi Heidi,
THis is a marine tank I take it (form the damsel)? How low is "low" when you talk about salinity? You have live rock? skimmer? Do elaborate on your set-up. I'm not sure how well young F8s would do in full marine.
Regardless of the above, that does seem like a high bio-load for your tank. Any two cubes is way too much... and "zooplankton"? Have you got anything bigger that won't foul the water so easily. Remember, this is a closed system, you can add crap to the water but you can't take away, wihtout decent skimming or heavy water changes. Feed as little as ylou can get away with with those fish in the tank. One cube-sized amount of no-messy food every two days would be more appropriate IMO.
Also, as an aside, you'll need to look into more crunchy food.
THis is a marine tank I take it (form the damsel)? How low is "low" when you talk about salinity? You have live rock? skimmer? Do elaborate on your set-up. I'm not sure how well young F8s would do in full marine.
Regardless of the above, that does seem like a high bio-load for your tank. Any two cubes is way too much... and "zooplankton"? Have you got anything bigger that won't foul the water so easily. Remember, this is a closed system, you can add crap to the water but you can't take away, wihtout decent skimming or heavy water changes. Feed as little as ylou can get away with with those fish in the tank. One cube-sized amount of no-messy food every two days would be more appropriate IMO.
Also, as an aside, you'll need to look into more crunchy food.
thanks!
Well,. okay, here it goes.. and I have a feeling I might get slammed for this 
I bought my F8 in a LFS from a marine tank in the store. I was told that both the F8 and the green spot could be fresh water or marine... and for the past month or month and a half, the F8 has done just wonderfully with my Damsel (I had two damsels, but brought one back to the store as it was getting too aggrssive toward my clownfish, who in return died due to the agression). No one, has ever challenged my puffer in any way. I was so entranced by Mylar, that when I had the opportunity to get the green spot, I took it. I find it amazing how un informative LFS help can be.
Now, as to my parameters... I have a 37 gal. tank with aprox. 50lbs of live rock with a crushed coral substrate. I have one F8, one green spot puffer, one black velvet damsel, one margarita snail, and about 6 blue-lg hermit crabs. I do bi weekly 1-4 to 1/3 water changes. I feed the a variety of dry "pebble" type food or frozen zooplankton or brine shrimp or bloodworms. (I had been feeding them 2 cubes because my F8 eats one all by himself!) My water levels include a salinity of about 26 and a specific gravity of 1.019. My Ammonia is .25, my ph 8.2-8.4, my nitrites are 0, and my nitrates are 0-5.
Now, this morning when I got up, both of the puffers appear much happier (maybe they know I've contacted you!) No one is pacing and my green spot is venturing out on his own, investigating the nooks and cannies of the live rock. I am always open to everyones ideas and suggestions so please, keep it coming... Thanks everyone! Heidi
I bought my F8 in a LFS from a marine tank in the store. I was told that both the F8 and the green spot could be fresh water or marine... and for the past month or month and a half, the F8 has done just wonderfully with my Damsel (I had two damsels, but brought one back to the store as it was getting too aggrssive toward my clownfish, who in return died due to the agression). No one, has ever challenged my puffer in any way. I was so entranced by Mylar, that when I had the opportunity to get the green spot, I took it. I find it amazing how un informative LFS help can be.Now, as to my parameters... I have a 37 gal. tank with aprox. 50lbs of live rock with a crushed coral substrate. I have one F8, one green spot puffer, one black velvet damsel, one margarita snail, and about 6 blue-lg hermit crabs. I do bi weekly 1-4 to 1/3 water changes. I feed the a variety of dry "pebble" type food or frozen zooplankton or brine shrimp or bloodworms. (I had been feeding them 2 cubes because my F8 eats one all by himself!) My water levels include a salinity of about 26 and a specific gravity of 1.019. My Ammonia is .25, my ph 8.2-8.4, my nitrites are 0, and my nitrates are 0-5.
Now, this morning when I got up, both of the puffers appear much happier (maybe they know I've contacted you!) No one is pacing and my green spot is venturing out on his own, investigating the nooks and cannies of the live rock. I am always open to everyones ideas and suggestions so please, keep it coming... Thanks everyone! Heidi
Heidi C Diener
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RTR
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I have serious reservations on the long-term prospects of this setup. First off I consider the tank overstocked for the long-term, and perhaps even now with that positive ammonia reading. There should never be any detectable ammonia in a tank with mature filtration.
You could review the materials in the library here and decide what course of action you want to follow long term. If you want to keep the setup as is, you need at least to add a large sump to markedly increase the system's total volume to ~60 gallons. You also must get the ammonia under control immediately, whatever else is done in the future. Either a good skimmer or a 24/7 lighted macroalgae refugium or both should be added to the enlarged system. The diet for the puffers need to be modified to more suitable foods as well.
But gather more information and decide what you want to have before attacking major changes, other than controlling the nitrogenous wastes (which are dangerous to the fish).
You could review the materials in the library here and decide what course of action you want to follow long term. If you want to keep the setup as is, you need at least to add a large sump to markedly increase the system's total volume to ~60 gallons. You also must get the ammonia under control immediately, whatever else is done in the future. Either a good skimmer or a 24/7 lighted macroalgae refugium or both should be added to the enlarged system. The diet for the puffers need to be modified to more suitable foods as well.
But gather more information and decide what you want to have before attacking major changes, other than controlling the nitrogenous wastes (which are dangerous to the fish).
Where's the fish? - Neptune
One thing I'd do asap is get the F8 into his own tank - at least 10G - and start lowering his SG.
That'll take down the bioload on the main tank - don't forget that the actual volume of water is way reduced by the amount of live rock, so it's even more overstocked in practice than your average 37 G.
Rather than do two 25% changes a week, I'd do one big 50 - 60% change a week...makes more sense if you think about it. Although obviously you need to be doing them more often to take down that NH3 in the immediate future.
Really, though, I'd get that F8 into his own home with mid-range brackish water - about 1.005 - 8...that'll go a long way to helping.
Once that's done, you can think about varying their diet a bit more.
Pami.
That'll take down the bioload on the main tank - don't forget that the actual volume of water is way reduced by the amount of live rock, so it's even more overstocked in practice than your average 37 G.
Rather than do two 25% changes a week, I'd do one big 50 - 60% change a week...makes more sense if you think about it. Although obviously you need to be doing them more often to take down that NH3 in the immediate future.
Really, though, I'd get that F8 into his own home with mid-range brackish water - about 1.005 - 8...that'll go a long way to helping.
Once that's done, you can think about varying their diet a bit more.
Pami.
regarding the diet, how varied do I have to get... they are getting the brine shrimp (both live and frozen) bloodworms, pellet food, live clams,.... what else can I get for them? Regarding the amoia level. It regularly is at 0, I belive the small spike you saw was due to my addition of a 3 lb piece of LR I added this week. And... please don't take offense to this question, everyone already seems so angry at me for some reason, but... what should I be seeing as an adverse reaction? I've had my F8 for over a month and he has been nothing but happy and healthy... I don't know... for over a year I had a total of 5 fish in my 20 gal tank (just increased to the 37 gal) and all has always been ok.... clean happy, healthy fish community... I was also told (and have read) that inverts and LR don't add to the bio load.... I'm so confused.. I don't want to changed things because it just might cause problems I don't have.. you know, kinda, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" way of thinking......
Heidi C Diener
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RTR
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Live brine shrimp is poor nutritionally, as they have been starved at the LFS. If you have a setup to maintain and feed them for some time, they improve but not a lot. It is excellent for getting reluctant fish new to captivity to accept foods, but beyond that its valve is minimal.
Frozen brine shrimp is one of the more effective ways to pollute your tank, and its nutritional level is less than that of live brine.
Most puffers will not take pelleted foods, and if they do, when they grind them and flush the fines out through their gills, these too pollute the tank.
Frozen pre-thawed bloodworms are great food for small puffers.
Live clams are also good food.
IMHO & IME, 5 fish in a 20 gal. SW tank is way overstocked.
Everything alive is bioload. LR uses certain materials from the water, but also contributes organics to the water. "Inverts" is too broad a category to characterize, but in general, if it alive it uses oxygen and takes in nutrients and releases wastes - which is the definition of bioload.
When you ask for advice or suggestions, you have to evaluate the responses for yourself. We can only suggest what we would do or have done.
Frozen brine shrimp is one of the more effective ways to pollute your tank, and its nutritional level is less than that of live brine.
Most puffers will not take pelleted foods, and if they do, when they grind them and flush the fines out through their gills, these too pollute the tank.
Frozen pre-thawed bloodworms are great food for small puffers.
Live clams are also good food.
IMHO & IME, 5 fish in a 20 gal. SW tank is way overstocked.
Everything alive is bioload. LR uses certain materials from the water, but also contributes organics to the water. "Inverts" is too broad a category to characterize, but in general, if it alive it uses oxygen and takes in nutrients and releases wastes - which is the definition of bioload.
When you ask for advice or suggestions, you have to evaluate the responses for yourself. We can only suggest what we would do or have done.
Where's the fish? - Neptune
Here is a question for you... Since I live at the shore and the puffers seem to like the baby clams quite alot, what are your thoughts on this.. Do you think it's plausible that I might get some of the baby clams and freeze them for the winter months? I mean, I can gather thousands of these little guys at a shot....
.and thanks everyone, you guys have really been alot of help in understanding my new puffers... if I had the room and a more understanding husband, I would make a tank specifically for them... but as it stands, I have to deal with what I have.
.and thanks everyone, you guys have really been alot of help in understanding my new puffers... if I had the room and a more understanding husband, I would make a tank specifically for them... but as it stands, I have to deal with what I have.
Heidi C Diener
Im jealousHeidi wrote:Here is a question for you... Since I live at the shore and the puffers seem to like the baby clams quite alot, what are your thoughts on this.. Do you think it's plausible that I might get some of the baby clams and freeze them for the winter months? I mean, I can gather thousands of these little guys at a shot....
.and thanks everyone, you guys have really been alot of help in understanding my new puffers... if I had the room and a more understanding husband, I would make a tank specifically for them... but as it stands, I have to deal with what I have.
I wish I could go and do this for my guys. I've been toying with the idea of picking some clams from the river for them to eat.
yeah, these are little tiny guys... no more than/2 an inch in size. I also picked up some little hermit crabs off of the rocks there...<grin> they were intended to add to my invert collection... little did I realize they were looked on as "dinner"! funny tho... they ate those that I brought from the shore (all but my real big 4 inch-er, but they leave my blue-legs alone.
Heidi C Diener
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PetPirate
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Hello Heidi,
Your setup sounds OK, albeit overstocked.
I am not sure how useful the live rock is at such a low salinity. If I were you, I would increase the SG to at least 1.023, to preserve some of the life on it. The F8 will probably be fine in marine for the time being.
RTR has lots of good suggestions for helping out with the bio-load. In the meantime, very frequent water chages will be key.
I would be reticent about feeding live-caught food form the beach unless the area is very clean. It would be a good idea to at least freeze it first, then thaw and feed... this should kill most of the pathogens.
Your setup sounds OK, albeit overstocked.
I am not sure how useful the live rock is at such a low salinity. If I were you, I would increase the SG to at least 1.023, to preserve some of the life on it. The F8 will probably be fine in marine for the time being.
RTR has lots of good suggestions for helping out with the bio-load. In the meantime, very frequent water chages will be key.
I would be reticent about feeding live-caught food form the beach unless the area is very clean. It would be a good idea to at least freeze it first, then thaw and feed... this should kill most of the pathogens.
Don't worry, no-one's angry at you, most people here are just very matter-of-fact and have your puffers' interests at heart. I agree with the freezing of the clams - and collecting them is a great idea.
I have to pay 5GBP for a bag of cockles at my lfs!
The biggest point that everyone's made, though, is that your tank is overstocked, and, as you obviously care about your fish, that's your biggest consideration right now.
Pami.
I have to pay 5GBP for a bag of cockles at my lfs!
The biggest point that everyone's made, though, is that your tank is overstocked, and, as you obviously care about your fish, that's your biggest consideration right now.
Pami.