Porcupine Puffer not eating - he can't open his mouth

[puffgirl]

I am new to this forum and have researched your previous posts on teeth being to long as a cause. He hasn't eaten in two weeks. Can I still give him clove oil or will it be too much. I am a mother of three and unfortunately slacked on my water changes duties. When I noticed his not eating, the PH level was 7.4 and we had an abundance of hair algae. I have since done a partial water change and raised the PH back to 8.4

I have a 30 gallon tank
1 porcupine puffer fish about a year old. (He's our only fish)
The tank is 1 year old
the levels are Ammonia .25, Nitrite- 0ppm, Nitrate 0ppm, PH 8.2,
Water temp. 75 Salinity 1.02

Other than losing weight and not a zippy as he usually is he is looking fine.
He felt a little slimy when I touched him. I feed him only Krill. (Not good, I now know after reading your posts.) I would feed him 1-2 krill every other day. Then one day he spit them back out and now he won't even try.
Could you give me any advice. I love this guy and so do my kids. It's like having a dog in a fish tank, we really love him.

Thanks,

Christie

[SkeptikaL]

Ok, assuming his overgrown teeth is the issue, his teeth need to be grinded down manually. Some people do their own grinding maintenance on their own, many feed crunchy foods (Which I realize you now know). However, yours, well, obviously can't eat, so you need to get those teeth grinded. I've never done it, so if you wanna take a stab at it yourslf, you have to wait for someone with maybe a SAP or something else that they grind themselves... I think Mayj has a SAP.

Anyways, do you have a local SW specialty store? I really nice place? If so, it is possible you can hire them to do this for you, however, I wouldn't be suprised if they don't offer that... Maybe you might wanna try calling a vet and see if they can do it and if not, who they can recommend?

I'm sorry to hear your puffs not doing to well, but like you said, you didn't know, but now you do. At least your learning.

Good luck.

[Boxermom]

Its quite possible that he's becoming ill from being stunted. A 30 gallon is far too small for a porc, even when young.

[Myaj]

I agree, puffers are very messy fish and a porc, even when young, shouldn't be kept in a tank that small. Since he's been in this tank for a year now, there may also be irreversable damage (stunting), which means he may never be 100% healthy. Stunting doesn't just keep them from growing full size, it messes up their internal organs and inhibits their immune system, which leaves them weak and sickly.

Puffers are also extremely sensitive to ammonia (or any other elevated levels for that matter), so he's slowly dying due to his bad water conditions.

You are going to need to get him into a larger tank ASAP (think 100 gallons or so) and in the mean time get your water parameters under control. Daily water changes will help, you can use something like Prime to help detoxify the ammonia in the water. After being set up a year, you really should have a well cycled tank and NO ammonia readings, so that is a huge warning flag. Are you using any products at the moment that might be stopping your tank from cycling properly? (ammonia removing products for example)

But right now, as you decide what you are going to do for a new tank for him, keep doing water changes to reduce some of that ammonia.

I doubt he's not eating because of his teeth, its stress and bad water conditions.

[gagned]

I'm no expert, but doesn't raising the pH also increase the toxicity of the ammonia in the tank? I would add some prime to the tank immediately and add it every time you do your water changes (do frequent water changes too until the ammonia drops to zero).

Not to harp on the issue, but a bigger tank is definitely needed for a porc. I would recommend at least a 100 gallon tank.

Hope your puff gets better soon.

Dan

[Pufferpunk]

In addition to the above recommendations:

Get a flashlight & look closely at your puffer's teeth, to see if they need trimming. If not, there is a possibility of lockjaw, if fed a diet of only krill.

[puffgirl]

Thank you for all of the information. I did not know that the tank was too small. I wish the pet store would have told me when I told them my tank size. I've dosed the water with Kent iodine according to the label (1 drop). I will check his teeth as soon as I can but its hard to see in between his lips. I am also working on the amonia level. My fault for not staying on top of those water changes. I need to find a good SW store. Most of the ones I knew went out of business here in So. California. Must be all of the Petsmart and Petco's putting them out of business.

I will keep you posted. He is still hanging in there but starting to keep his tail bent more often now.

Christie

[Puffer Queen]

Why dose with iodine? Is there a goiter (mass under the jaw/chin region)?

What is your iodine level? Iodine can bind with other chemicals and be released later - could lead to a toxic iodine level.

[Pufferpunk]

I'm not sure where she got the info, but iodine has been proben to help w/lockjaw. If the lips are covering the teeth, then they are probably not too long.

[puffgirl]

Yes, his lips are covering his teeth, so I agree now that it may not be a tooth problem. I did read somewhere that iodine is a treatment for lockjaw. I also read that someone once tried to force feed through a syringe. I tried that today, oh boy was that fun It took me about five times but I finally got enough in through the corner of his mouth while he was trying to puff up. Did another water change today. Everything is good but the ammonia levels. Nitrites - 0, Nitrates - 0 PH - 8.2 Ammonia now at .50. He is also starting to get a little fin rot. He's a little stressed after the force feeding. I don't know if I want to try that again. Poor little guy. I wish I had a better tank to put him in.

Thanks again
Christie

[Puffer Queen]

Can anyone direct me to the link, research, article, etc for iodine deficiency causing lock jaw?

As far as I have read/researched - iodine deficiencis cause thyroid problems - goiter which is a mass (visible) that can grow to sizes that it impedes the ability to swallow (compresses the esophagus).

What is the iodine level on this tank with the puffer?

What are the nitrate levels?

[Boxermom]

Can't remember where I saw it but I remember reading that lack of iodine is thought to be a contributing factor to lockjaw. Just by doing a google search on lockjaw and puffers.

[Puffer Queen]

I have done numerous searches & all I find is here say and antedoctal reports without any true documentation.

Any help would be appreciated.

[monsterpuffer]

I have done numerous searches & all I find is here say and antedoctal reports without any true documentation.

Any help would be appreciated.

Try searches using search engines that only look for scientific references.

I've use Scirus and found it to work well. There's also Ojose and Google Scholar, but I've never used them.




http://scholar.google.com/
http://www.scirus.com
http://www.ojose.com

[Puffer Queen]

I have used those and nothing with iodine deficiencies causing lockjaw.

If you find any - I would REALLY appreciate the information.