Well, I've come to stir up trouble with some obvservations of my puffer's behavior. Contrary to what many on this forum have stated and zealously defended, I have reason to believe that fish DO indeed see a reflection on the tank wall, to some degree. On multiple occasions I have witness my puffer completely miss food during feeding time, and go zipping towards a wall where I can visibly from outside see a reflection of the food on the glass. I believe he is chasing the reflection he sees, but I have also notices he has not trouble seeing outwards into my room. He swims against the glass ridiculously for a few seconds before giving up and finally spotting the real food. I believe that there IS a reflection, but just as much as you would experience looking out a window where it is noticeable but not exactly obstructive. I have noticed this effect is exacerbated when the light in the tank is on while the room light is off.
Think of it what you will, it is by no means direct evidence, but it gives me reason to pause.
P.S. Let the chaotic discussion ensue!
EDIT: Btw I have noticed this behavior MULTIPLE TIMES, so it is not just a one time occurence; if it was I wouldn't bother mentioning it.
No human being, however great, or powerful, was ever so free as a fish.
-John Ruskin-
"I have to laugh when people call fish-keeping a hobby, if anything, it's a science... and for some, an obsession." - Me
Do as I did, stick your head in a tank and you will see. We are looking through glass at angled glass full of water, that is why we see a reflection. Trust me they do not
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
Sorry to be a stickler, but your observation does not validate your claim any more than mine does. You don't have the eyes of a fish, therefore cannot claim that the fish sees what you see. Just as your experience leads you to believe your claim, mine also makes me inclined to believe my own.
Since no one here is going to state scientific evidence (myself included, I haven't the time nor resources to dedicate to such a study) anything we say is speculation.
I by no means am denying anyones opinion on the matter, I just ask that in this thread please don't put any ideas out, as without factual evidence there is no room for such.
Oh BTW I'm not targeting you Bertie, this is for anyone who posts here!
Despite differing opinions I want to ask people to play nice!
Oh and btw - look through the tank from one end (not at an angle) through to the other side, exactly paralell the one you are looking through. You will see a reflection but also be able to see quiet clearly though to the area outside the tank. This is my speculation to what the fish sees, or is very similar. Again this is my speculation.
And the diffraction of light in fish eyes is different compared to human eyes, because fish see from liquid (eye fluids) to liquid, where human eyes have to see through liquid/air. I'm curious Bertie, how did you look through the water? With or without eye protection? Either way seems to me to skew results, and again would be impossible to tell if this is how the fish eye sees unless someone gets a fish-eye transplant LOL!
P.S. again lets keep the conversation civil - counter-arguments are welcomed, but I don't condone condescending tones or insults (me included, pray tell me if I come off as so)
(Again directed at all posters, not just you bertie, your observation and experience on the matter is both amusing and interesting =D)
No human being, however great, or powerful, was ever so free as a fish.
-John Ruskin-
"I have to laugh when people call fish-keeping a hobby, if anything, it's a science... and for some, an obsession." - Me
This is an ancient debate, always endless among those who have never studied optics &/or physics
Air/glass/water interfaces give predictable effects by refraction, as do air/water interfaces. Someday our schools might actually show students the influence of optics/refraction on what hobbyists "see"when tank-watching. Glass and mirror Fun Houses can also be instructive.
But I were ever going to do another T. mbu tank (which I will not do, I could not afford it and the fish might outlive me), I would do one large Monaco style aquarium. They show interface refraction effects so clearly that no one can argue against these effects of refraction interfaces...
FWIW, what you see looking into a fish tank is not, repeat not what the fish sees, and when the fish is any distance back from the front glass its position is not where it appears to be to an external observer.
I understand what you're saying from your standpoint, but again, how can you say what the fish sees? Also, could you explain my observations with your reasoning? Im sorry but "it's obvious physics" doesn't deem an adequate defense for me, particularly because no one here can know what the fish actually sees.
Again my observations have been most noticeable with the tank light on and the room light off, Bertie, see if you can replicate this while sticking your head in a tank and get back to me !
Last edited by G S P Freak on Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
No human being, however great, or powerful, was ever so free as a fish.
-John Ruskin-
"I have to laugh when people call fish-keeping a hobby, if anything, it's a science... and for some, an obsession." - Me
scpion wrote:We had a little discussion regards this sometime back.. in fact, as RTR said, this is a age old debate and it will pop up again every once in a while.
Below is the thread. Be sure to read the other original thread in the link. Just dun fall off your chair, laughing...
Yeah it's been nagging at me recently because of what I noticed, and I just couldn't leave it alone. Haha I was just waiting for real birdy to come take a chunk out of sponge-birdy XD.
Just tried something similar, with similar results - Cameras catch reflections on the tank wall FROM THE INSIDE. This is by no means proof, but it is interesting nonetheless.
No human being, however great, or powerful, was ever so free as a fish.
-John Ruskin-
"I have to laugh when people call fish-keeping a hobby, if anything, it's a science... and for some, an obsession." - Me
I also believe fish can partly see their reflection. As stated by gsp freak my mbu would also try and get at the food behind him in the tank reflection. I dont think they can see a perfect mirror of themselves but they do see a percentage of it. If you imagine youre standing in a room with the light on and you look outside through the window you can see out side but you can also see a reflection of yourself in the window. I believe this is what the fish see when looking out of the tank.
