f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

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blackghostknife
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f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by blackghostknife »

can't decide between the two. help me decide? my criteria are:
1. Must be able to recognize it's owner.
2. Must be loaded with personality.
3. Must be able to thrive in a 30 gallon tank.
4. Must be able to thrive on a diet of live trumpet snails.
5. Must be easy to care for.
6.Must be cute ( really hard with this part).

thanks in advance. :D
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by sevenyearnight »

Trumpet snails are too hard.
There really is no easy-to-care-for puffer, but you get what you put into it.
By your list, I'd go with a figure 8.
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by J-P »

get two 30 gals and try one of each ;)
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by xrayjeeper83 »

no puffer will be good on a diet of trumpet snails.
RTR wrote:Fahakas do not have tank mates, they may have swimming food reserves.
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by RTR »

+1 to xrayjeeper83's post. That is not an appropriate diet for any puffer IME.
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by El Scorpio »

Both fish meet your criteria (with the exception that no pufferfish will thrive on trumpet snails alone.)

So, I guess the question is do you want to go mildly brackish for a figure 8, or a 30 gallon saltwater tank with some purdy live rock for a toby?
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by blackghostknife »

what about ramshorns and clams for a diet. And just might up grade so the tank would be a 55
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by El Scorpio »

Well, if you get a 55 then I will say go ahead and get a toby, because tobies are more active than figure eight puffs. Plus, you could also get a protein skimmer which helps keep your water clean.

Tobies are very personable fish, too, by the way. My orangetail Camille is a toby, and she swims up to you when you approach the tank, wakes up scatterbrained in the morning, dances the shimmy-puff when it's feeding time (she shimmys up and down the glass while shaking her tail and puffing up, hence the name), tries to bite your hand when she's mad, and pouts in the corner during tank maintenance/water changes. They also grow a little bit larger than figure 8's.
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

Brackish will probably be easier/cheaper than saltwater.
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by blackghostknife »

which one makes the best beginner puff?
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by bertie 83 »

I would say no puffers are beginner fish but as long as you are committed to cater for their requirements and have reasonable aquarium experience you should be fine
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by blackghostknife »

oh, no, lol I mean what is a good first puffer, or should I say which is the best one for a person who has never kept puffers before. I am certainly no beginner.
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by CyberBob »

For a 30g Tank, I'd say F8 or GSP or a handful of DPs even. I have 10 DPs in my 30g. Just make sure to keep only 1-2 males and the rest female. F8 will start fresh , but will need brakish. GSP will start out fresh, but then need brakish and eventually salt. Brakish isn't hard at all. I would suggest adding crushed coral if you go this route. It will help regulate your PH. Both the F8 & GSP will want water in the 8.0-8.2 range. DPs like it closer to 7.0. I think 7.2-7.4 is where they seem the happiest. F8s will be happiest in water with a SL of about 1.015. GSP will be happier in about 1.025. DPs are fresh their entire lives. Just be sure that you slowly raise the salt level (SL) or the poor lil puff will go into shock. You should raise the SL about .002 per week until you reach desired level. Your LFS will most likely have them in fresh or very low brakish. So, it is best to add them to your cycled tank, then slowly raise the salt level. The F8 only needs 1.005 until they reach about 2 inches, then I would just shoot for 1.015. The GSP will want 1.10 under 2", but will slowly want more salt. You don't have to go full on salt with a GSP, although many will say it's better for them. If you decide to keep a GSP in brakish long-term, please make sure it is at least 1.015-1.020. I personally keep my DPs 1.001-1.002 water. But, I do this only to encourage breeding. They seem to breed more after the water goes fresh again. If you don't want babies, keep it fresh. Never keep it at 1.002 for a long period of time though, only a couple months at a time, when you see some courtship. But, it will all be a slow process with their salt needs. GSPs can be very hard to breed in captivity. In fact, most puffers are very shy when it comes to romance. DPs ... not as much. All 3 of the puffs I mentioned love snails. But, they mostly eat ramshorns. The GSP will have no problem with the trumpets when he is bigger. The F8 will eventually be able to eat trumpets also. The DPs will never eat trumpets, most likely. The reason being that the ramshorn snails have a thin shell, but the trumpets have a very hard shell. the babies could never bite through. The reason I mention these three specicific breeds of puffer is because they tend to be the easiest to find locally (Florida). If you live close, I could send you a starter set for free if you want. I wouldn't really want to ship them cross-country. 2-3 days shipping is best. It's easy to find them on eBay all over the US. Don't worry about the different colors. I started with some blue, albino, leopard, etc etc... After a month, they are all pretty much red, the colorfuls ones died off and their babies never turned color. They all start out red though. I started with about 20 ramshorns and had about 1000 in 3 months. It's best to keep the snails in their own tank. Puffers don't always let them live long enough to breed.

My personal vote would be to get 8 DPs (pea puffers, dwarf puffers). They stay freshwater their entire lives. They are really easy to take care of, low maintenance. But, it is very very important they have ramshorns snails, because it will be about 90% of their diet. I have managed to get a few of mine to eat freeze dried mysis shrimp, but it isn't a staple food. The best ratio is 1 male and the rest female. I tried that, but one of my lil girls might be becoming a boy. Or, perhaps she is just a lil scrapper and loves to bully.
If you want 1-2 puffers, I would say 1 GSP or 2 F8s (1 male, 1 female or 2 females)

All of them are very very cute and they all have unique personalities. I like the idea of having 10 1 inch puffers with their own quarks. But, a lone GSP will be a great pet. He will act like a dog when he sees you and come running to the glass. Some puffers will always do that even if kept in a group though. 7 of my 10 DPs come running when they see me.

it really can be a hard choice. but, whatever you do, please do your research on that particular puffer. Babies are cute, but most puffers will want a LOT of space when they get bigger. If you do go with a 55g, you could get 2 GSp, but that would be pushing it. 3-4 F8s in a 55 would be fine, max being 6 IMO. With DPs, you could probably have about 30-40 of the lil buggers in a 55g.

With any group of puffers (anything over 1), you will need a well planted tank for them to claim territories. otherwise, you will soon have a dead puff. The other thing to consider is that all puffers are very messy eaters. If you get a 30g tank, I'd go with a 55g+ filter. with a 55g tank, at least a 75g filkter or even a small canister. with the DPs, they may be small, but they make a mess nonetheless. Expect to have to do 50% water changes every week with any puffer. I have managed to get away with 50% every 2 weeks, But I'm using a 75g filter in my 30g tank. If you want your puff tank to be anywhere close to a normal maintenance tank, it's not too hard. You just have to plan ahead and get proper filtration and hiding spots.

The next problem you will have are tankmates. For the most part, it's best to have a species tank for any puff. I do keep some black neons with my DPs and they leave them alone completely. Probably because the black neon looks alot like an oto ... not too tasty. There really arean't any brakish algae eaters also. plecos and otos CAn live in brakish, but they will have a miserable life and that just isn't nice. with DPs, otos seem to do best. But, a nice small pleco will work also. I personally love bristlenose plecos ... they have a cute mustache and are algae eating machines and they rarely grow much past 3". The clown pleco is another good choice, but you will never see a clown pleco and as it gets older will need wood to eat. technically all plecos are wood eaters though. But, the clown pleco won't eat nearly as much algae. Again, they also have their own personalities. I had a clown pleco that was out all day cleaning the glass. but most hide all day and come out at night. bristlenose are active throughout the day and are constantly cleaning. otos are great that way also and they stay very small ... about 2".

You really can't go wrong with any puffer. They all make great pets. It's alot like have a dog in a fish tank. Some are pit-bulls and some are poodles. Almost all of them will love their owner and recognize them. You just need to be prepapred for your puff's needs. With most puffers, less is better. The DPs are the only ones I have found that actually do very well in large groups. They will still argue, it's in their nature. The PufferPedia has been a great source of info for me. But, it's good to read what others say in the forums. You might learn a lot more from the forums.

LOL, I think I just hi-jacked this post, sorry. If you want any more help or advice, feel free to PM me.
Or else, I might just write another book in your post ;-)

If you want a saltwater puffer, the GSP or Valentini are both good choices for a 30g. But, there are so many species and they are all great.
FW, BW or SW ... That is the question. Plan Ahead Plan Ahead Plan Ahead :-) With Proper Care most Puffers live 10+ years.

Good Luck,
Bob
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Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by RTR »

Comments on the above post (from CyberBob):

- 10 DPs in a 30 gallon tank is too many. Also on that same tank, 50% partials every other week are too few on such a tank.. You cannot compensate for insufficient partials by increasing filter size/capacity. Filtration and water changes do different things,they are not alternatives, both are required independently of each other. Plus, DPs are FW fish, they do not ever need marine mix addition even at low levels.

GSPs in the wild are BW fish and move routinely from FW to BW and to SW and the reverse, but in captivity they live bet in full marine conditions in tanks with live rock for biological and chemical filtration, with a good protein skimmer added, and preferably with a 24/7 lighted macroalgae refugium. Over their expected ~15+ year lifespan, such tanks are far easiest and cheaper to operate than are conventionally filtered biofilter and mechanically filtered tanks with 50% weekly water partials, so such tanks are what we suggest for their captive housing and upkeep. Those Fish Only w/Live Rock (FOWLR) + skimmer + macroalgae are more expensive to equip and establish, but operating costs are significantly lower over the life of the fish, as water partials are significantly lower and thus much less costly. Those tanks also provide the best possible conditions for maximizing the captive lifespan of the GSP at the least cost.

-To date we have no technique for determining the sex of F-8s other than necropsy. We have no idea what their sex is of live fish in captivity.

- To me, Black Neon Tetras neither look nor act anything like an Otocinclus catfish. Thais is absurd.

-"Well planted tanks" are relatively simple in FW. They are tricky to difficult in light BW, and extremely difficult in SW, effectively impossible in mid-range BW. Puffers do best in visually complex spacious tanks - that is true. But they need not be "well-planted" with live materials. Visual complexity is all that is required. Don;t attempt to shoot yourself in the foot with live plant materials in BW or SW unless you are an advanced and experimental marine hobbyist.

Not all plecos are wood eaters. Quite a few currently available are high-protein eaters, and rarely if ever touch algae. Most are extremely poor choices for puffer tanks, or any non-FW tank. Otocinclus catfish often are left alone by DPs and are thus often good worker fish in a heavily planted DP tank, but are completely unsuited for co-housing with most other puffers or in anything but FW.

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing..."

The best warning I know for novices it to be careful of all the advice offered, even by so-called experts or mentors, but especially so if it makes anything sound easy or simple. What you do not know always bites you.

Check the PufferPedia and the Library on this site for lots of articles and information on keeping puffers in captivity.

HTH
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sevenyearnight

Re: f8 or saddle valentini puffer?

Post by sevenyearnight »

My comment for CyberBob as well:
The question was - F8 saddle valentini puffer?
That was a lot of unnecessary information besides the inaccuracies.
For the OP:
Have you had a marine tank before? Because if you have, and if you're getting a 55 gallon, I change my suggestion to the valentini puffer.
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