20g long Fangs setup detail and thoughts

[KJB]

I have a 1 week old Fang setup. My puffer is about 2.5" long. I had a 15 gallon Fangs tank back in 07-08 but my Puffer died via blockage from an MTS shell. So no MTS in this tank!

20g long tank

Substrate - Fluorite original

Water - 78F, ph 7.4, hard, fully cycled with 5-10ppm Nitratate. 25% weekly water change aka swap one Home Depot 5 gallon or old water with one of primed tap.

Filter - Aquaclear 20 (replacing with two large air pump powered sponge filters)

Decor - 2 driftwood pieces, 3 granite pieces

Lighting - 35w pc refugium light

Plants - 1 Anubia, 1 Amazon Sword, 1 Jungle Val, 3 Bacopa stems, 1 Java Fern. Tiny bit or Riccia. I will add some Hornwort and Anacharis and let things grow out.

Tank mates - started with 10 Fancy Guppies from my leftover 10gal I swapped for this setup. I have about 6 Guppies left, I am not surprised as Fangs love to hunt by lurking in plants(My Bacopa) and then shooting up on fish.

I currently feed my fang a little Krill every other day to supplement his Guppy meals. I never intended on feeding him the Guppies and figured I had more time to re-home them but I got a stone cold killer. I intended to do a mostly frozen diet of krill, bloodworms and beefheart. Then supplement that with Red Ramshorn snails from my plated tank. I don't think I could keep a large enough population to feed my puffer continually.

Any thoughts on if one or two Marble Crayfish could be housed with him if they are about 2-4 inches long. Is the Cray going to try to kill my Puffer or get turned into a huge Puffer buffet that ruins water quality? I am seeing some really nice ones for 1 dollar. I would love to keep the adults and when they breed the Puffer gets a meal. My gut says to stay away but I am still tempted. I searched on here and don't see anyone with a Fangs that has tried it, it could be a good experiment. I know most larger puffer owners raise marbles in a separate tank but that doesn't help me much.

What are peoples thoughts on adding shrimp to to a puffer tank as food and as a cleanup crew? I used to use ghost shrimp but I want to rethink everything I did in the past.

I have heard mixed things about Ghost Shrimp and bringing in parasites/pathogens but I could get 30 for 3 dollars for a little clean up and provide my Puffer with some stimulus and food. I did this in the past and the only negative I noticed was that the puffer only eats at night and I couldn't insure the shrimp had nice filled bellies.

I have tons of Red Cherry Shrimp in my large planted tank but they are expensive snacks and I doubt they would last long at all or make much of a meal...

[RTR]

Fang's puffer should be able to handle immature/small crays, but I would not try them with adults. There is no way to ensure who will kill and eat whom. Crays tend to be dark-active when most puffers are inert but edible lumps.

It is not uncommon to see parasites on ghost shrimp, but the chances are nil for cross-comtamination. Shrimp parasites cannot live on fish and fish parasites cannot live on shrimp. The only chance of cross-contamination is that if the LFS uses central water systems, there may be free-swimming fish parasites in the water looking for hosts, especially FW Ich and some bacterial and gut fish parasires. If you QT and gut-load the shrimp for a week to 10 days without moving any of their water to the fish tanks, the fish parasites transfer stages will die off. The ectoparasites on the shrimp should not affect the fish, but I do not buy heavily infested shrimp or crays to be feeders.

It is difficult in most cases to maintain shrimp in predator tanks. With RCS and dense planting especially at the substrate level it can be done. But RCS, while nutritious generally, offer almost no "crunch" for incisor wear in puffers. They can and do provide something live to hunt, which I consider beneficial. But do not count on them for needed crunch.

I would not generally use fish as feeders for other fish, but I have a strain of guppies which I have maintained for decades and know to be disease-free, and do not hesitate to use them when needed for new fish until I get them trained to non-fish foods. I would not risk purchased feeder guppies without at least a couple of generations of in-home breeding (which is not very long) to ensure their disease-free status.

HTH

[KJB]

RTR thank you so much.

I figured crayfish was a bad idea and you have made up my mind. It was/is tempting though.

I did not know the parasites and pathogens are shrimp or fish specific. I know the tank they would come from is only shrimp so ghost shrimp again it is!

The guppies were left over from a tank I had to take down... I do know they were of perfect health though and all were tank raised. I was actually blow away how quickly my fangs went for them. I never thought of them as piscivores,I assumed they killed fish out of aggression more then for meals.

I am hoping to get more Ramshorn snails to provide that special crunch! My current ones don't seem to be breeding enough.

Any suggestions?

[RTR]

Ramshorns for me require a lot more room to grow than common pond snails, but I usually do not lack the room as I have used some veggie filters for snail breeding and rearing.

[KJB]

RTR here is my tank setup currently. Let me know what I should improve upon. Of course anyone else's input is welcome.

Right when it was setup.





I did a complete re-scape and added way more Anubias and Java Fern. Added tons of Ghost Shrimp and two Red Clawed Crabs for clean up and as something that could be a potential crunchy meal (I made sure all of them were in tanks without fish on their own system). Although I think the crabs even at 1 inch might have been a very dumb move. I think they may be too much for my young puffer at this point in time so I am checking the tank non stop. Hopefully its just paranoia. If they get to be too much I will put them in a bottle with holes in it (so they can stay in the tank overnight)then take them back to the store. The water quality is good, nice and hard at 7.6 and only 5ppm nitrates.










I am really trying to fix the mistakes of the past where I kept my puffers in 12g tanks. I want a puffer focused environment now granted with so little info available a biotope is impossible. Here was my last Fangs tank (Fangs died via MTS blockage) in the 12g tank.



early days
early days as well

[xrayjeeper83]

all your tanks are so nice.

I need to learn how to aquascape effectively

[KJB]

I appreciate the compliment. I try to make my tanks look nice (I fail a lot... imo) but this one is more about the puffer and I am not doing a good job.

I actually found my puffer getting attacked by a red claw crab right after posting so out they go. The crabs cannot pierce her(from the looks of it) but she seems to have no clue on what to do as its a new experience for her. I have put the crabs in a tupperware holder with holes in it until I can take the to a store.




I was worried but I still cannot believe these little things were more of a threat to my puffer then vice versa. My Fangs just froze when the crab went to attack and just curled up and seemed ot take the punishment. No running, just froze, I was worried the crab had killed m puffer for a second but there seems to be no damage.

[Pufferpunk]

Tank looks great! Plants should be fantastic when they're all s=grown out. Those fish look like dinner though.

Not a Fangs, that's a turgidus puffer.

[xrayjeeper83]

I have one of them in the tank im gonig to put my abei in, hope it doesnt try to eat my puffer lol

[KJB]

Thanks Pufferpunk. Yeah I posted on Monster fish keepers that they were left overs from a 10g I tore down to setup this tank and 12 become 6 over 3 days. I didn't even get a chance to re-home them so I have given up, unless anyone wants guppies missing most of their tails? I figure at least I know they are healthy fish so at least they will be a good meal.

Have you ever heard of this reaction to red claw crabs before? The crabs are nickel and quarter sized my puffer is about 2.5 inches. Just glad I checked the tank every 5 minutes or so, but my Puffer is pouting and curling up still.

I would be really happy if its a Turgidis (yeah excuse for a bigger tank) but I am pretty surprised. Those two species seem to be nearly impossible to tell a part it took me 4 months last time to make up my mind. But I do see a red spot in the target near the tail which I thought meant its a Fangs? I will double check the occeli... I think you are right I haven't tried looking at it hard enough since it should be a pronounced red not a reddish brown with small red middle.

I hope its a Turgidis since they do grow larger other then that behavior wise they might as well be the same fish.

[Pufferpunk]

Sorry I didn't see the red spot. Sure looks a lot like Beetlejuice:

[KJB]

could be the lighting and it could be a Turgidis. Need to take a good body shot and really focus. I would prefer a Turgids as a 6 inch fat and happy puffer is definitely appealing.

Have you ever heard of a puffer neither running or fighting back when being attacked by a much smaller crab?

[Pufferpunk]

Filbert, who is around a foot, met his match with a very aggressive cray a couple of months ago. Finally got it though, after a good pinch in the face.

[KJB]

See this wasn't a match the puffer threw in the towel instantly. The good news is the shrimp are at least being targeted! I have gone through this forum using search looking for a similar example and cannot find it.


Edit I did find an example... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14952&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... +claw+crab

Granted I think this crab was at least closer in size to the Puffer. Just look at how small the ones i bought are...

[RTR]

IMHO & IME, I just do not ever keep clawed critters w/puffers for any length of time. Puffers do nap/sleep and are subject to claws. If not eaten within hours, I remove them from the tank and try again later.

Red Clawed Crabs, like Fiddlers, really should not be in FW anyway. They do better light BW, and should have out-of-the water areas, but do not spend as much time out as Fiddlers in my tanks.