Puffer tank, filtration, etc.

musicman980 · Post by **musicman980** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:37 am

I am quite interested in porcupine puffers and dogface puffers. The biggest aquarium I can afford right now is either a 55 gallon or a 40 gallon breeder. Right now most of you are thinking omg another person who wants to stunt the growth of a puffer, but I'm not going to keep it past like 6 inches or so. What should I look for in a puffer tank, height width or length? 55g is long and high, and the breeder is not as long but wider.

How fast would a 2 inch porcupine or dogface puffer grow to 6 inches? Does a porcupine puffer have a different growth rate than a dogface puffer?

If feeding the puffer 3 times a week (which I do with my other fish and they are very happy and healthy and not starved) how fast would the nitrates rise in a 40 gallon with a 20 gallon sump or a 55 gallon with a 20 gallon sump, using maybe a seaclone skimmer OR 20 lbs of fiji live rock and carbon? Like what would my nitrates be with that feeding in a month is what I'm asking. The puffer would be the only fish in the tank.

How high can nitrates get before they start affecting the puffer? (My clown fish and angel fish right now are at 80 ppm and they are very healthy) I'm mentioning my fish because I don't believe 20 ppm or 40 ppm will affect any kind of fish.

What puffer has more personality, the porcupine or dogface? I heard the dogface is shyer, is this true?

Where do you guys get your puffer fish food? What is it?

Has anyone ever used macroalgae with a puffer as a means of nutrient export in a sump? Do you think this is a good idea? It would be a lot cheaper than a skimmer...

Thank you very much for reading all of my questions, I know there is a lot. And thank you for answering them all if you do.

Post by **Pufferpunk** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:16 pm

Personally, i wouldn't get a puffer you couldn't house for life. Why not go with a toby?

musicman980 · Post by **musicman980** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:42 pm

What is a toby?

Post by **Pufferpunk** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:50 pm

Sharpnosed tobies, the Canthigaster species: ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Marine/?g2_page=2

musicman980 · Post by **musicman980** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:55 pm

Eh, they don't look as cool or seem to have the personality of a porcupine puffer

Post by **Pufferpunk** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:32 pm

They're still pretty cute though! How about a GSP?

musicman980 · Post by **musicman980** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:35 pm

Haha no no no I really would like a porcupine puffer or dogface puffer.

Post by **Pufferpunk** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:43 pm

It sounds to me, you're looking for a puffer because it is personable, recognizes it's owner & will interact with you. Then get the proper housing for one before you purchase or plan on upgrading within a few months. It's not fair to the puffer to take him from the ocean, get him used to your face, feeding practices, his environment & then rip him from his home again to... who knows? Would you buy a large breed puppy & then get rid of it when it grows too large for your small house?

sevenyearnight · Post by **sevenyearnight** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:22 pm

Your nitrates are very high. Nitrates in the ocean are not typically above 2.5 ppm. Puffers are pretty sensitive being scaleless. I know that you said you don't believe that nitrates at 40 ppm will effect any kind of fish, but I think it is wise to attempt to replicate their wild conditions as closely as possible. Fish aren't very expressive so it's a bit trickier to determine if they are truly happy or not.

Flutter · Post by **Flutter** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:32 pm

Puffers aren't the fish for someone who's looking for minimal commitment and input of time and money (which appears to be resulting in poor water quality and an inadequate tank size). It sounds like that's exactly what you want to do.

If you can't properly provide for a puffer then it won't live a full and healthy life. Period.

musicman980 · Post by **musicman980** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:33 pm

My fish eat out of my hands so I think they're pretty happy... and yeah its the personality that I like about the porcupine puffers. I can get a 75 gallon for around $100 on craigslist, is this a better sized tank?

And upgrading to a bigger sized tank in a few months? How big could a 2 inch puffer get in a few months?

How much maintenance is required for a porcupine puffer fish? Expensive to keep?

jus85411 · Post by **jus85411** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:24 pm

im sorry but im with the rest. if you cant do it right now, dont do it at all. that is one thing you learn with puffer keeping. they are entirely too messy to not put in the proper tank size. now if you are asking about a 2-6" mbu that you are making the proper housing for, and have a 400-500 gallon tank to keep him in the meantime then yeah do it. but your talking the tank size(a 55) that most people would recommend for a single GSP because of the complex environment they need to explore, their size, aggression, and messiness. a 75 would be a little better but honestly i wouldnt be a fan of you doing that, as im sure a lot of people who commented woundnt like it either. you do as you wish, we can only suggest. this dogface/porc your going to get is only 2"? where are you getting it at? i have never seen one that small. smallest i have ever seen is 5ish inches and it was a porc. another reason i wouldnt do it is your equipment, seaclowns(as PP would refer to them) arent good. you need quality equipment and to do weekly water changes. and honestly it doesnt sound like your really ready to commit to puffers. your their pet, they are not ours. and if your looking for minimal care, yes you will have success short term but certainly not long term.

the stress alone from moving and moving and moving is what is making most people say no to this. if there is anything harmful in the water or it is not cycled, there could be fatal results. marine is expensive as you can tell by your current saltwater setup. 80ppm is really really high. and no it might not show ill effects right now, but its long term health that it effects. ammonia will have immediate effects, but since nitrate is less toxic it will take longer. puffers, especially the larger species should grow fast, but thats given that the tank size, diet, care and water parameters are correct. if anything is off for any extended period of time you risk stunting/killing your fish. your nitrates will rise unlike anything you have ever seen if you do not do the proper water changes to keep it low. nothing will replace a skimmer, it removes stuff your other filters wont so i dont know if theres getting around it with a "nutrient export". please reconsider if you do not have the proper housing/equipment to set him up with right away. it will look ridiculous a 120+ gallon tank with a tiny 4-7 inch fish, but with that size tank and with the right care he will grow quickly and be more of a reward than you can imagine

sevenyearnight · Post by **sevenyearnight** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:26 pm

I'm not trying to be a butthead, but just because your fish eat out of your hand doesn't mean they are happy. High nitrate levels are not healthy. I don't suggest waiting until fish stop eating before considering that there might be an issue.
I am not certain why your nitrates are so high, but you should keep them at least under 20 ppm.

Flutter · Post by **Flutter** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:38 pm

Also, the minimums given truly are minimums. Larger than them is always better, smaller is no good.

Minimums are notthe ideal tank size.

I'm glad you're here and you're doing research and asking questions before buying. That's very good of you and a very smart thing to do. There aren't any stupid questions and I'm one that believes that it never hurts to ask (to a point

). Right now you're doing the right thing. I know we're presenting you with a lot of negativity but it's not personal, you're learning, we're all learning. I truly hope you stay here and continue to learn with us. We can help you create a healthy tank full of healthy fish that will live long lives.

Puffers are different than many other fish. A lot of what we're presenting you with may seem over the top compared to what you're used to. I swear the locals around me think I'm crazy with my beliefs. They do things very differently.

Puffers are extremely personable, intelligent, messy, long lived, and sensitive fish. Because of those qualities they have higher demands than most fish. Higher than the fish you're used to. They're wonderful fish but they need to be kept properly for you to see how awesome they really are.

Does that help?

musicman980 · Post by **musicman980** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:48 pm

You guys are right, the maintenance and the amount of money I would spend is just too much for me to handle right now. I would have surely messed up a puffer fish. Thank you all for being so nice about it too, except sevenyearnight - your a butthead. So what if I thought my fish happy cause they were eating out of my hand? Who wouldn't think that.

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