Takifugu ocellatus

[J-P]

PP you wrote:
Peacock Puffer & Spotted Puffer 9/4/04

There seem to be an influx of these "peacock puffers" (Takifugu ocellatus), available in the aquarium trades lately. It's a shame really, since there has never been anyone (even the best puffer experts, Robert T Ricketts, a puffer keeper of over 40 years & Dr Klaus Ebert, author of The Puffers of Fresh & Brackish Waters) able to keep these puffers alive more than a few months.
RTR said, "I have tried 4 of them, various times and various water conditions. My shortest-lived was on the order of a week, the longest did grow a fair bit, but was still only a handful of months at the most - I don't have the exact figures handy. All were definitely still juvenile fish, all ate, all were active to hyperactive, and all died."
With that in mind, it would be best not to buy these puffers, as it will continue to deplete the natural populations, only to have the fish in a tank for a very short while. It's such a shame that collectors have no idea--they are taking them out of their home, to certain death!

I was wondering if anything has changed over that time or opinions have changed. I know they are available and require special care but has anyone that you know been able to keep these long term?

[mandycat]

I actually had one of these puffers for 7 years, then I traded it in to the fish store I worked at, and a woman there bought it. I had it in 100% freshwater the entire time. I got him back in like 1998 or so.... About 4 years ago, at the same fish store (I worked there for almost 10 years).. we got one in a saltwater shipment. A guy bought him, and as far as I know...at least up until a year and a half ago (was the last time I saw him) he still had his.

[PolishPuff]

I had it in 100% freshwater the entire time.

Are we sure we are talking about the same fish here?

[mandycat]

Yuppers! Same fish. Promise.

[PolishPuff]

Hmm.

I dont want to sound stupid but I know PufferPunk has this fish in a SW tank. It says so here.

ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Marine/T_Ocellatus/

I know they breed in FW and then move to SW habitat.

[mandycat]

Not sounding stupid...
Ive kept a gizzillion puffers over the years, and I've seen Takifugu ocellatus in fresh, brackish and salt water. Ive seen their demise in all three, as well. This was the first real puffer I ever had, kept him for a long long time. I got him from a customer in the fish store I worked at, he had him in freshwater, and thats how I kept him for years. really. I'm not crazy. hahhaa (not saying you said I was)

I wish I would've kept him....he was the really cool. When I took him to the fish store I worked at, some lady bought him, took him home, and brought him back the next day and said he ate all her african cichlids. Really. (I kept him by himself, knowing how aggressive he was, he would try to eat me through the glass when I walked by, water flying out of the tank, lips smashed up against the glass. And I didnt sell the fish to her, someone else did when I wasnt there)

Anyway.... I have a bunch of friends as my witnesses. They loved that fish:)

I dont know why I had the golden puffer. He just was that happy and well taken care of when I got him, and I took super pristine care of him as well. I've been keeping fish for over 15 years and ws the manager of one of the biggest fish stores in the Midwest for years.... and I own my own fish tank maintenace business, and take care of freshwater, saltwater, reef tanks....from 75 gallons to 1800 gallons. Not that any of that matters, but I said it to show you my credibility. I'm not making stuff up about keeping cute litlle puffers in freshwater.

[Pufferpunk]

Golden puffer? Are you sure we're talking about the same species?

[beezepuffingaround]

LOL- Its so funny to me how determined people are to have doubt!!!! And not just on this subject!!! I thought I was mildly experianced in being an aquarium owner, but have quickly realized there is much I was unaware of, and over the years I shouldn't have been sucsessful In even owning a gold fish, let alone other fish I've tried!!! I'm a New Gsp owner, and in the last weeks have learned a lot from many sources( Including this wonderful site), and the one and only thing that I'm 100% sure of is that Everyone has an opinion, and their own experiance, and once someone has had a picticular experiance They live by it like its the Bible!!! Including my husband who is so sure that my little guy will not make it past 1 month!!! (this is because he lost 5-6 GSP's over time in a Tank that he and a roomate did over 10 years ago) I guess if it was me I wouldn't nessisarily want to doubt, so much as wonder, With the many, many, many different Species of puffers, is there another spieces that mocks or resembles Peackocks or Goldens??? and if not, then WOW!!! That is really cool that you had such great Success, and you should Really consider doing it again, and Keeping good documentation, as Others will want to know how to be successfull too!!! Are you still in the Business??? What do you own now?

[mandycat]

Oh my.... YES!!!! Were talking about the same puffer!!!! When I said golden.... I meant golden like the golden ticket. Like the lucky puffer. Like I don't know why I has the perfect happy super dooper puffer!!!
Hahhahahh.
Last time I am going to say yes. Same stinking puffer. ( I say that with love)

[PolishPuff]

I kept him by himself, knowing how aggressive he was, he would try to eat me through the glass when I walked by, water flying out of the tank, lips smashed up against the glass.

Sounds really aggressive

[RTR]

Don't run down yourself or others for inexperience. We all start as novices, we all (hopefully) learn from our mistakes, and we all get hyped by our successes. I freely admit that I have wasted many tank-years on faulty premises. I also admit that the main reason I always try to keep at least one (egg-layer) species breeding in my tanks - that is to make up in part for all the fish that I have killed through improper care over the years. Improper care includes my own stupidity, poor to bad information, and from getting poor specimens to start with. The one excuse I cannot claim is that I have not lost fish from power failures or such unavoidable outside causes - in that I have been very lucky.

One item that everybody is ignoring on this and other "tricky" puffers is the quality of the fish available. My biggest SW days were back in the era of fish poisoned by the collection process. Such fish could die quickly or over months, varying by the dosage they met in the wild and their own sensitivity to the then-common poison. I will still claim that many of the fish we got back then were an order of magnitude or more better than those available today. But in some ways our selections are much better today - the numbers of puffer species available now is mind-blowing compared to what we had available back then. So there are trade-offs. Neither era was or is a golden age. Now we know so much more about handling captive fish in semi-closed systems, and many more folks have access to that hard-learned knowledge- if they try to find it, and can tel the difference between fact-based material and mythology. But now it is really difficult to get high-quality common fish other than in large cities or from on-line sources (which are not without their own pitfalls). I find it sad that I never see real sailfin mollies anymore - they were very demanding fish and commonly mistreated, but there are few FW fish that can be as impressive.

But there are some fish that we still have big issues handling - T.ocellatus is a prime case. Is it their water requirements? There is little info. Feeding strategies? We don't know. Temperatures? That is one possibility. Space/current/setup issues? Possible. Eventually we will learn more, but with long-lived and little-studied fish such as this it is not easy or fast.

One hobbyist' experience with one or afew specimens must always be considered, but we cannot completely ignore those things which which we do not know and are unlikely to be able to unearth - the source and collection and shipping process, the collection season and the water from which it was taken, the age of the specimen when the reporting hobbyist got it, and the fate of other fish collected at the same time and place, plus a host of other details we are unlikely to be able to find. But eventually we will know more. We have to believe that.

[PolishPuff]

mandycat

Any notes, any recollection of temperature, water quality or feeding that you can shear with us. I think this topic is great.

[Pufferpunk]

Maybe my fellow has a chance at survival then! Better... since I'm setting up a whole new tank for Veronica!

[Corvus]

Also see the article by Chin and me in the library and search for "sushi" owned by the user "recombinantrider". There are some that have kept this fish along for quite some time. Well, and they are being bred in China in at least one research facility.

One idea that came up regarding high mortality is the following: It's a marine puffer most of its life. Following field data there is not much doubt about that. They enter freshwater rivers once a year to produce offspring at some certain age similar to salmon. And just like salmon it is reasonable that the propagation and migration severly weakens the fishes. Since almost all found in the petfish trade are caught in freshwater this might affect the majority of the fishes found in the shops, which may (or may not) recover under very good care.

[mandycat]

RTR... Love me a true sailfin Molly. and There were still definitely some good ones around about 7 or 8 years ago... haven't seen a good one since. And working and being so close to the fish industry for years... I know just what you are saying about collection of fish that seem "hardy" forever, you just cant get good ones anymore, certain fish always get certain diseases, and collection in general (dwarf angels being brought to the surface to quickly, getting the "bends"....their stomachs going into their throats... living like that for two months, and up and dying).
Sooooo much has to do with the source of the fish, and how it was treated along the way... over collection, pollution, diet...oil spewing into the Gulf....and then the fish still has to make his journey to the lfs, then to you. That's a lot of what the hecks....

Polish... My ocellatus was in a twenty long with an Eheim, 76 degrees, city water, which is pretty good in Milwaukee for fishies... ph. 7.5ish, not hard water at all, minimal carbonates... pretty stinking soft water, actually. (which totally makes you guys wonder, eh? I feed him fiddler crabs, crayfish, guppies, krill, silversides, mysis shrimp, bloodworms, he even ate spirulina pellets....

I gave him 30% water changes every week.... he was maybe 4 inches when I got him, and he only grew another inch or so the whole time I had him... He eventually got moved into a 30 breeder tank after the second year or so...

Thats my golden ticket info. I can maybe give you more if you have any more questions... Let me know!