URGENT HELP PLEASE

[Puffdaddyuk]

Hello
This is the first time ive got back on here and noticed my previous post "mbu abit moody today" was moved to here.

Ill list the tank paramters in a min, the update is:

He's still quite shady in places and this morning when I came down stairs hes swimming curved over on his side and when he attempts to swim he's spiraling around, it seems he cant mantain a normal swimming pattern, then he gives up and floats to the bottom of the tank bent over on one side, very very weird.

One thing i did notice the other day was a trumpet snai in the tank that just dissappeard with no signs of the shell or such like, so I hope he hasnt eaten him whole, the snail was about 1/2 inch long and puffdaddys only 3/4 inches so if he did eat it, I dont think this would help, maybe it might have upset his swim bladder.

Ok my water details are:
NO3 - 0
NO2 - 0
GH - 8
KH - 6
PH- 7.2 steady
Cl2 - 0
Temp 26oC
Tank size 190litres Juwel Trigon tank
Only other inhabitant is a small 2inch bristlenose cat
I feed him Bloodworm and ramshorn snails

I done a water change 2 days ago, just like noraml around 10% waterchange and cleard some of the poop just like normal.
Ive tried massaging his belly to see and lumps and he's quite soft underneath so I dont think its the snail, but what I did notice when I had he cupped in my hand was when I released my grip slightty he all of a sudden turned on to his side, i.e one eye up and one eye facing down. Its asif he cant hold his balance, he currently sitting completlet vertical, nose down tail fin directly up

Please help

[Iliveinazoo]

You don't list you're ammonia level or how long the tank has been set up? You should have a nitrate reading if your tank is cycled?

The majority of people do a 50% water change weekly on their puffer tanks so you might have water quality issues.

Apologies if your tank is cycled but my current thoughts are that you will need to carry out large daily water changes until you cycle, there's an instant cycling product that has come up in many threads that you may want to use - do a forum search on instant cycling.

Somebody may have pointed this out in another thread but Mbu's get massive and will outgrow your tank quite quickly, have a look at the pufferpedia for recommendations.

[LilGreenPuffer]

I'm going to agree here. Tank doesn't look cycled. Check your ammonia.

How long did you say Puffdaddy is, 3/4in? I've never heard of an mbu that small. Typo?

I don't think that it's a snail swallowed whole. If that were the case, the symptoms would probably have been instantaneous.

[Puffdaddyuk]

You don't list you're ammonia level or how long the tank has been set up? You should have a nitrate reading if your tank is cycled?

The majority of people do a 50% water change weekly on their puffer tanks so you might have water quality issues.

Apologies if your tank is cycled but my current thoughts are that you will need to carry out large daily water changes until you cycle, there's an instant cycling product that has come up in many threads that you may want to use - do a forum search on instant cycling.

Somebody may have pointed this out in another thread but Mbu's get massive and will outgrow your tank quite quickly, have a look at the pufferpedia for recommendations.

Hi thank for the reply

Tank has been setup and running for around a year now, which no hickups sofar.

In relation to tank size, even the 190ltr is massive for him at the moment although his new home is currently being cycled and has been for around a week.

Ammonia is zero mg/l as per the tetratest kit.

I do regular waterchanges around 10% every otherday and regularly siphon out his big poops, pleco is fine as per his normal self.

Ive been searching online and swim bladder disease keeps popping up??


Thanks

[Puffdaddyuk]

[quote="LilGreenPuffer"]

How long did you say Puffdaddy is, 3/4in? I've never heard of an mbu that small. Typo?

quote]

Yeah really he's no bigger than 3 and half inches he's only 2/3 months old

[LilGreenPuffer]

Ive been searching online and swim bladder disease keeps popping up??

Ya know, I did think of swim bladder disease, but I've never heard of it happening in a puffer (I'm sure it does, but it seems very rare), so I went with what seemed more likely to me - an uncycled tank.

The thing is, swim bladder disease usually results in the fish floating when it stops swimming, not sinking.

[Pufferpunk]

I thought puffers didn't have swim bladders. I do agree there should be some nitrate in there. Is it possible he's constipated?

About those water changes:
Water changes - why, how much, how often: http://www.aquariumboard.com/forums/articles/4802.htm

Water change math - general: http://www.aquariumboard.com/forums/articles/4804.htm

[LilGreenPuffer]

I thought puffers didn't have swim bladders.

I think I heard that, too. Makes sense.

[Puffdaddyuk]

Well since my post this morning, Ive been to the LFS who also diagnosed it as swim bladder disease (Puffers do have swim bladders according to loads of websites and my LFS) and have been given some aqualibrium salt and some interpet swimbladder disease treatment.

All day he's been sitting in one spot of the tank nose down tail up, normal breathing and his fins are moving normally although he hasnt attempted to swim, he has also passed poop about 2hrs after i started the swim bladder treatment the first time in about 2 days, properly anyway, and he seems to have perked up in his upside down position

Any other suggestions or best to follow this treatment through

[Puffdaddyuk]

I thought puffers didn't have swim bladders. I do agree there should be some nitrate in there. Is it possible he's constipated

That also was discussed at LFS, and was told the salt and swim bladder treatment will help pass anything if there is anything stuck.
His belly has become quite swollen since last night, so could be that?

[Myaj]

I would lean towards the constipation myself. Be very careful with medications and puffers, they don't have scales so they absorb things way too fast and too much.. its very easy to kill them with something a normal tropical fish would have no problem with. The salt should help with the constipation. Is he eating? If he is, and you can convince him to eat it, try giving him skinned peas.

So translating into "american" you've got a 3-4 inch Mbu puffer in a 50 gallon tank.. that is still getting pretty crowded considering its a mbu, they are known for their messy eating habits and large waste produced, generally you would have quite noticeable nitrates.

So the first question is why the heck don't you have any? That is not normal, and probably means something is wrong.. either with your cycle or your test kit. 10% daily water changes would keep them lower, but they won't eliminate them completely, not with a 3-4 inch mbu in there. (Please clarify this, at one point you say he's only 3/4 of an inch long, then later you say he's 3 1/2 inches long?? Is he less than one inch long or between 3 and 4 inches long? Maybe use decimals instead, is he .75 inches or 3.5 inches? LOL)

What products do you add to this tank? As in chemicals, dechlor, additives, etc?

I want to say that puffers don't have a swim bladder per say, like a normal fish would.. Corvus, do you know?

[Puffdaddyuk]

I would lean towards the constipation myself. Be very careful with medications and puffers, they don't have scales so they absorb things way too fast and too much.. its very easy to kill them with something a normal tropical fish would have no problem with. The salt should help with the constipation. Is he eating? If he is, and you can convince him to eat it, try giving him skinned peas.

So translating into "american" you've got a 3-4 inch Mbu puffer in a 50 gallon tank.. that is still getting pretty crowded considering its a mbu, they are known for their messy eating habits and large waste produced, generally you would have quite noticeable nitrates.

So the first question is why the heck don't you have any? That is not normal, and probably means something is wrong.. either with your cycle or your test kit. 10% daily water changes would keep them lower, but they won't eliminate them completely, not with a 3-4 inch mbu in there. (Please clarify this, at one point you say he's only 3/4 of an inch long, then later you say he's 3 1/2 inches long?? Is he less than one inch long or between 3 and 4 inches long? Maybe use decimals instead, is he .75 inches or 3.5 inches? LOL)

What products do you add to this tank? As in chemicals, dechlor, additives, etc?

I want to say that puffers don't have a swim bladder per say, like a normal fish would.. Corvus, do you know?

He's 3.5 Inches max, he's not eaten anything today, I tried to tempt him with he's beloved bloodworm but didnt eat anything, he's currently nose down tail up and has been all day.

In relation to tank size he looks like a neon tetra in there so I believe he's got plenty of room.

No3 - approx 5 ( my test kit goes 0 then 10 and its defo not 10 so at a push i'd say 5)
No2 - Zero

[Puffdaddyuk]

This is him, taken just a moment ago, its hard to see in the pic but he has quite a rounded tummy, and he's been sitting like there pretty much all day now.

[Myaj]

Ouch. My guess would be a blockage (possibly a tumor) of some sort. Color looks surprisingly good though, considering.

Have you tried "burping" him in case it is an air bubble? (see instructions in the library)

[Puffdaddyuk]

Ouch. My guess would be a blockage (possibly a tumor) of some sort. Color looks surprisingly good though, considering.

Have you tried "burping" him in case it is an air bubble? (see instructions in the library)

HI thanks for reply

He has alittle discoloration on his top, small greyish patches but overall colour is good, havent tried burping and havent seen him puff up ever either, although it could of happened over night.

Everything I keep finding is pointing to constapation / swim bladder disease

And I still cant find this trumpet snail he's normally very messy leaving bits of shell all over the place but no sign of trumpet shell at all and the actually snail itself, its just dissappeared, Im starting to think this is the problem as over the couse of today he looks like hes got a point poking out of his side.

I have a towel over the tank with the light off to keep him calm and also knocked the temp up a degree to 27 to try and aid digestion.

He still hasnt tried swimming again since this morning where he was just spiralling around bashing into things.

I suppose Ill have to wait until morning to see how hes getting on.

Thanks for the help sofar