Is 7 to 10" of water deep enough for an Arrowhead? My new tank for this puffer is only 12" high, but I'll need to drill it for my overflow system. That will knock it down to about 10 or 11" high, plus I'll have at least a couple inches of sand for substrate.
Although the water will be shallow compared to the current tank, it'll have double the length and width, giving my puffer more swimming space.
Suvattii tank size
I've decided to put my ACFs into my new tank instead.
New question (although I'd still be interested in an answer from my first question):
Is 14.5" L x 17" W x 12.5" H enough room for a suvattii or a miurus puffer?
I have three tanks of this size (plus four smaller ones and a very long 20 gallon tank) in a rack of tanks holding a little over 100 gallons of water. My sump for this set up holds 35 gallons alone. The water is very clean, and more than enough pumps through my small series of tanks.
Since my ACFs will be moving soon, I'm thinking about getting a miurus to take their old spot. My suvattii is already in such a tank.
I'm not concerned about water cleanliness as I would be if my suvattii was in merely 15 gallons of water, but I'd like to know if this is sufficient room to prevent these lurker-types from getting stunted.
Instead of the new tank, I'm thinking about having a custom-built tank with these dimensions to add to my rack:
24" L x 18" W x15" H
My suvattii will be moved to this future tank later on. If I was to get a miurus, it would still be stuck in the smaller tank. So, basically, if it turns out that my suvattii's tank is too small long-term, I won't go and pick up a miurus (which I understand reaches the same 6" adult size).
Thanks.
New question (although I'd still be interested in an answer from my first question):
Is 14.5" L x 17" W x 12.5" H enough room for a suvattii or a miurus puffer?
I have three tanks of this size (plus four smaller ones and a very long 20 gallon tank) in a rack of tanks holding a little over 100 gallons of water. My sump for this set up holds 35 gallons alone. The water is very clean, and more than enough pumps through my small series of tanks.
Since my ACFs will be moving soon, I'm thinking about getting a miurus to take their old spot. My suvattii is already in such a tank.
I'm not concerned about water cleanliness as I would be if my suvattii was in merely 15 gallons of water, but I'd like to know if this is sufficient room to prevent these lurker-types from getting stunted.
Instead of the new tank, I'm thinking about having a custom-built tank with these dimensions to add to my rack:
24" L x 18" W x15" H
My suvattii will be moved to this future tank later on. If I was to get a miurus, it would still be stuck in the smaller tank. So, basically, if it turns out that my suvattii's tank is too small long-term, I won't go and pick up a miurus (which I understand reaches the same 6" adult size).
Thanks.
From the dimensions of the tank 14.5" L x 17" W x 12.5" H = 13g approx
This IMO is way to small for a T.Miurus or a T. suvattii. Both requiring 30g each min.
24" L x 18" W x15" H = 28g which is still not the 30g recommended but certainly better than the first tank.
This IMO is way to small for a T.Miurus or a T. suvattii. Both requiring 30g each min.
24" L x 18" W x15" H = 28g which is still not the 30g recommended but certainly better than the first tank.
Some call it a product of a mis-spent youth, I call it Rock n Roll ! 
Offering a tank size in gallons vice dimensions is, IMO, very limited.
5" L x 5" W x 300" H = just over 30 gallons. Would you put (or cram, rather) a 6" puffer in a tank of these dimensions?
I'm not interested in the gallons of water (that has been taken care of by a gratuitous sump), but in the actual amount of space the fish will have. There is a big difference there...
14.5" x 17" seems like a fair amount of room for a 3" suvattii, considering how inactive this fish tends to be. I just want to make sure it's enough to prevent stunting its growth long-term.
5" L x 5" W x 300" H = just over 30 gallons. Would you put (or cram, rather) a 6" puffer in a tank of these dimensions?
I'm not interested in the gallons of water (that has been taken care of by a gratuitous sump), but in the actual amount of space the fish will have. There is a big difference there...
14.5" x 17" seems like a fair amount of room for a 3" suvattii, considering how inactive this fish tends to be. I just want to make sure it's enough to prevent stunting its growth long-term.
-
Bred
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 364
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:42 am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
In principle that actually sounds good to me Flusher.
The 30 gallon suggestion has more to do with water volume than actual swimming space, and your sumps take care of that. The only thing I don't like about your setup is the 12" height... Once you put sand in there (deep enough for the suvattii to bury in!) there isn't going to be much vertical swimming space. The footprint is good though.
The 30 gallon suggestion has more to do with water volume than actual swimming space, and your sumps take care of that. The only thing I don't like about your setup is the 12" height... Once you put sand in there (deep enough for the suvattii to bury in!) there isn't going to be much vertical swimming space. The footprint is good though.
Flusher wrote:Offering a tank size in gallons vice dimensions is, IMO, very limited.
5" L x 5" W x 300" H = just over 30 gallons. Would you put (or cram, rather) a 6" puffer in a tank of these dimensions?
I'm not interested in the gallons of water (that has been taken care of by a gratuitous sump), but in the actual amount of space the fish will have. There is a big difference there...
14.5" x 17" seems like a fair amount of room for a 3" suvattii, considering how inactive this fish tends to be. I just want to make sure it's enough to prevent stunting its growth long-term.
That comparison is very extreme and does not relate to your original post.You asked if the tank was big enough to house either one of the puffers and in my opion it is not.As we have learnt from the forum all puffers are different and I can quite honestly say that my T miurus is the most active puffer I have.I could not see him having enough space in the tank you quoted and that is presuming there is no decor as well.When I talk about 30g I am not only referring to the volume of water to provide quality but also as a measure of actual swimming space.While you may feel that the footprint is adequate,I would not like to limit a fish to swim just above the substrate.To me your second sized tank would be more suited to these puffers.
Some call it a product of a mis-spent youth, I call it Rock n Roll ! The comparison was meant to be extreme to illustrate the point that surface space and gallons of water are related, but the same size tank can vary substantially.
If a miurus puffer is very active, perhaps I'll pass on that fish. My suvattii is not horribly active at all, so I'm not worried about it for now.
http://www.petstation.com/clfrog.html
I've decided to bump up the size of my planned custom tank to 24" L x 20" W x 18" H (outside measurements), giving me about 480 square inches of surface space, instead of the 435 square inches my new frog tank has.
I'm fairly confident that my suvattii would be okay long-term in his current smaller home. It actually has 11.5" deep water from the top of the 2" thick substrate to the water line while the water pump is on. (My earlier measurements were taken with the water pump off, so the water level was a bit lower.) Still, the suvattii will be moved once I add the final tank to my tank rig.
Thanks for the help, guys.
If a miurus puffer is very active, perhaps I'll pass on that fish. My suvattii is not horribly active at all, so I'm not worried about it for now.
I decided against using the 30" L x 14.5" W x 11" H (inside measurements = 20 gallons) for my suvattii. Simply put, I didn't have room for 31" next to my current set up. Moving over my rack just a few inches would be too much hassle. On top of that, it isn't a very deep tank, and I'm not sure if the glass is tempered. I didn't want to risk drilling it to connect it to my sump and existing plumbing, so it has become an unheated and unfiltered tank with a large surface space for my ACFs:Rocker wrote:To me your second sized tank would be more suited to these puffers.
http://www.petstation.com/clfrog.html
I've decided to bump up the size of my planned custom tank to 24" L x 20" W x 18" H (outside measurements), giving me about 480 square inches of surface space, instead of the 435 square inches my new frog tank has.
I'm fairly confident that my suvattii would be okay long-term in his current smaller home. It actually has 11.5" deep water from the top of the 2" thick substrate to the water line while the water pump is on. (My earlier measurements were taken with the water pump off, so the water level was a bit lower.) Still, the suvattii will be moved once I add the final tank to my tank rig.
Thanks for the help, guys.
Last edited by Flusher on Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
I ended up building a stand and two tanks; one for my suvatti, one for my miurus. Each tank is 24" x 20" x 15" (only 13.25" deep water, not including the substrate). One tank is on top of the other, not side-by-side. I hooked the new stand and tanks up to my existing tank rack plumbing.
Are these tanks big enough to permanently house these two fish? I really don't want the tanks to be just the bare minimum, but these are lurkers, so I don't think they warrant an oversized tank, either.
Are these tanks big enough to permanently house these two fish? I really don't want the tanks to be just the bare minimum, but these are lurkers, so I don't think they warrant an oversized tank, either.
Flusher wrote:I ended up building a stand and two tanks; one for my suvatti, one for my miurus. Each tank is 24" x 20" x 15" (only 13.25" deep water, not including the substrate). One tank is on top of the other, not side-by-side. I hooked the new stand and tanks up to my existing tank rack plumbing.
Are these tanks big enough to permanently house these two fish? I really don't want the tanks to be just the bare minimum, but these are lurkers, so I don't think they warrant an oversized tank, either.
Why are you so against bigger tanks.How can you say that a fish doesn't warrant the extra space? Surely as a dedicated fish keeper you should provide the best possible conditions for your fish without any compromise.
Some call it a product of a mis-spent youth, I call it Rock n Roll ! Okay, two things.
RTR: I think you're mixing up conservatism with liberalism, in that you give your fish liberal amounts of room.
You mentioned in another post (I'm too tired to find it) that my old 13 gallon tanks would house these fish comfortably considering the extra water in the centralized filtration, and considering that they aren't particularily active fish.
Rocker: Notice I bumped up my tanks from 24" x 18" x 15" to 24" x 20" x 15".
[EDIT #1: Oops - I goofed up the measurements. I went from 24 x 20 x 18 to 24 x 20 x 15, so the tanks are actually smaller, but only due to height. EDIT #2: After rereading, I see that I've noted a few different potential dimensions. Deciding on a tank size has been a bit taxing on my mind...]
These are 31 gallon tanks with just over double the footprint of the original 13 gallon tanks, and with a gallon over the minimum recommended.
I'm not against bigger tanks - this was the biggest I could possibly accomodate, and I wanted to ensure the minimum recommended was not just barely scraping by for the comfort of my puffers.
I'm already working on a tank upgrade...
RTR: I think you're mixing up conservatism with liberalism, in that you give your fish liberal amounts of room.
You mentioned in another post (I'm too tired to find it) that my old 13 gallon tanks would house these fish comfortably considering the extra water in the centralized filtration, and considering that they aren't particularily active fish.
Rocker: Notice I bumped up my tanks from 24" x 18" x 15" to 24" x 20" x 15".
[EDIT #1: Oops - I goofed up the measurements. I went from 24 x 20 x 18 to 24 x 20 x 15, so the tanks are actually smaller, but only due to height. EDIT #2: After rereading, I see that I've noted a few different potential dimensions. Deciding on a tank size has been a bit taxing on my mind...]
These are 31 gallon tanks with just over double the footprint of the original 13 gallon tanks, and with a gallon over the minimum recommended.
I'm not against bigger tanks - this was the biggest I could possibly accomodate, and I wanted to ensure the minimum recommended was not just barely scraping by for the comfort of my puffers.
I'm already working on a tank upgrade...
Last edited by Flusher on Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
-
RTR
- Mentor
- Posts: 6155
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 4:39 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): East Coast, USA
I said to you before: "That said, a standard 30-long is approximately 17" tall, 12" deep (front to back), and 36" long (or wide, depending on how you describe the long dimension). That is what I would suggest for any 6" puffer." And I still stand by that rule of thumb.
It is conservatism. I am basically a conservative fish-keeper. I over-house whenever possible, I aways over-filter, and I maximize water changes rather than minimize such - all conservative practices.
It is conservatism. I am basically a conservative fish-keeper. I over-house whenever possible, I aways over-filter, and I maximize water changes rather than minimize such - all conservative practices.
Where's the fish? - Neptune
RTR: A synonym for conservative is moderate, and a synonym of liberal is generous. You are doing generous water changes with generous filtration for fish with generous room in their tanks. You do stock your tanks moderately, however. These are all good, but they aren't all conservative practices, IMO.
If I didn't think my two 6" puffs needed more room, I wouldn't have made the new tanks for them. My new tanks actually have a larger footprint than the standard 30-long. The shape is wrong for a very active fish like a SAP, but for these lurkers, there seems to be plenty of room. Neither are full grown, but my suvattii is getting there; he sure doesn't look cramped.
If I didn't think my two 6" puffs needed more room, I wouldn't have made the new tanks for them. My new tanks actually have a larger footprint than the standard 30-long. The shape is wrong for a very active fish like a SAP, but for these lurkers, there seems to be plenty of room. Neither are full grown, but my suvattii is getting there; he sure doesn't look cramped.
-
Bred
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 364
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:42 am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
Flusher, let's not get into a fruitless semantic argument. 'Conservative with the estimations' may or may not be another way of saying 'liberal with provisions'. Regardless, I think the hairsplitting is unnecessary: you clearly understand the point RTR is making and I don't think he left any room for confusion, so let's not get to confusing things, mmmkay? 
I can't stand dictionary fights.
You have committed to those tank sizes and you have committed to those species and by all means, go for it. The advice RTR and Rocker are offering is based on the experience that if you give these so-called "Lurkers" extra space, they will be much more active and engaged with their environment. What you do with this information is entirely up to you. Personally I think too much emphasis is placed on these fish being sedentary when the truth is that individual activity levels are highly dependent on a number of variables, tank size & dimensions being two of them. Their being labeled as "sedentary" leads to people wanting to keep them in grossly cramped conditions.
Slightly OT, I'm very curious to hear about the construction process of these tanks. How tough is it to make a tank? Did you get the glass precut, and what are you using as a frame? Any pics you can offer? This is a project I'd like to learn more about approaching.
/also - I'm still not sure about those tank heights. All I can say is try it and let us know what you think.
//also also - Be sure to cover the tanks well - we don't want any jumpers!
I can't stand dictionary fights.You have committed to those tank sizes and you have committed to those species and by all means, go for it. The advice RTR and Rocker are offering is based on the experience that if you give these so-called "Lurkers" extra space, they will be much more active and engaged with their environment. What you do with this information is entirely up to you. Personally I think too much emphasis is placed on these fish being sedentary when the truth is that individual activity levels are highly dependent on a number of variables, tank size & dimensions being two of them. Their being labeled as "sedentary" leads to people wanting to keep them in grossly cramped conditions.
Slightly OT, I'm very curious to hear about the construction process of these tanks. How tough is it to make a tank? Did you get the glass precut, and what are you using as a frame? Any pics you can offer? This is a project I'd like to learn more about approaching.
/also - I'm still not sure about those tank heights. All I can say is try it and let us know what you think.
//also also - Be sure to cover the tanks well - we don't want any jumpers!