Jack the Ripper is ill

[Troender]

My beloved Jack the Ripper is ill. He has been since I came home from my vacation. He hasn't eaten anything after I came home, except for a snail I tricked him into taking today. He is also darkly colored, which is something that he really doesn't use to be. He has become pretty thin, as you would suspect to find when a fish is not eating. He is also less afraid of me - I take that as a sign of apathy. My first guess is IPs, so I gave him a dosis of my precious Flubenol yesterday. I know it can take some days until he starts eating again, if that's the problem, but I am just nervous about the situation. Because, there's one thing that has changed in his tank. This is one of the tanks I have succeeded with plants (I am really bad at keeping aquatic plants alive). Now the plants are covered with BGA, something I've never had in this tank before. So there's something wrong with this tank, that's for sure. Sadly, I haven't any Phosphate test, which is a very good thing to have if you are struggling with BGA. The other test results are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10
Ph: A not reliable reading of 8,0. Not reliable because my PH pen hasn't been calibrated for a while, and I am out of the calibrating fluid I need. And no shop does have something like this in their shelves. I went to the 3 biggest pet shops in Trondheim, Norway's third biggest town, and none of them had it. I can order it on the net, but I really would like to order it together with something else, because of the cost of sending it to me. Well, my PH pen usually show too high PH when it needs calibrating. Usually 0,2-0,4 too much, so I guess the right PH will be 7,6 - 7,8.
So all the tests look normal.

He had a 50 % water change yesterday, and another water change (I always do 50 %) 2 or 3 days before that. The first waterchange after I came home from vacation, I wiped out a lot of algae on the glass. The water change after that, I siphoned the bottom of the tank, as there were leftovers from the food he wasn't eating and of course leftovers from that algae cleaning. How I am gonna get rid of the BGA on the plants, I don't know yet.

More facts about the tank: It's a 22 G, and Jack lives there by his own. It is filtrated with an Eheim Aquaball, I can't remember the model number, but it should be more than enough for filtrating that tank, and the test results also shows that. The tank has been set up for 1 1/2 year. I have changed filter in that time, but it's half a year ago or something like that, and the filter was very well cycled before I put it into the tank. The filter has actually been in constant use longer than Jack's tank has been set up.

Water changes schedule is 1-2 times a week, with 50 % each time. The water is taken directly from the tap (no clorine or anything like that in our water), and I don't have to add anything to the water when I fill it into the tank. I know you should be careful about using heated water from the tap, but I've done it all the time, and never had any problems with it.

Jack is fed every other day: different kinds of seafood (mostly raw), some snails, a few times bloodworms, and a few times my own shrimp mix (made for my discuses, but as it contains very much green stuff in it, I've found that it would be good to feed my puffers with it every now and then. But right now he isn't eating even his favorite food. I've only seen him take one snail, and I think that was because of his puffer reflexes: seeing a snail fall down in front of his nose. He just couldn't leave that alone! As far as I can see, his teeth looks fine. But as he doesn't open his mouth much, it's difficult to be absolutely sure about it.

That should be the information I can give on this case. The only change to his tank, is that I've been gone on vacation for 2 1/2 weeks, and there has been no feeding nor water changes during that time. And during that time, I also got BGA in the tank, for the first time. I have no idea why, which is why I really want to test for phosphates. I really need to order such a test next time I order something from one of my favorite online store.

Anyone with any other idea that IPs?

[Pufferpunk]

Do you have other tanks as well?

[Troender]

Do you have other tanks as well?

I didn't quite get that question. Yes I have other tanks, and they are all inhabited. I haven't seen any sign of the other fishes being ill, but if it's IP, there's a big chance that others are affected too, as they share some equipment. Jack looks better today, but he still won't eat. I tried tempting him with snails again, and he went after them, but stopped 2-4 inches away, and didn't touch them.

[Agnate]

Nobody checked up on the tanks for 2.5 weeks? Yikes! Maybe he just got really sad when you left to 2 and a 1/2 weeks, and now he's grumpy with you because he hasn't had his normal feedings for a while.

I know my puffers *hate* me when I skip one day a week for feeding. They always turn their head away from me until I give them the next day's food! My gf's friend also had a rabbit. Whenever she would leave school (where she normally lived) and went to her parent's home for a week, the rabbit wouldn't even look at her for 2 weeks after!

Have you tried soaking his food in garlic? Just get a garlic clove, mash it up, and put it in the water with the food you want to feed him (in a dish, of course). Then put the food in for him. If he ate a snail once, he'll probably do it again. I don't really know what else to suggest...


As for the BGA, do a black-out on the tank for a few days (3 days is probably good), and clean the algae out as it dies off. You probably had a breakout in BGA because your plants are growing in your tank based on the proportions of minerals they receive with every weekly water change (which, by the sounds of it, you usually do). By not changing the water for 2.5 weeks, the plants have exhausted the minerals that are usually replenished in the water change, and allows for algae to grow. In your case, it just happened to be BGA. Either that, or the extra buildup of detritus caused an increase in phosphates, which lead to a BGA outbreak.

Thanks my guess, anyways.


Hopefully he starts feeling better!

[Pufferpunk]

I guess I meant are there fish in your other tanks & are they & the tanks all still well?

[Troender]

The other fishes are all well. It's just Jack. And he is ill, not grumpy. Hufflepuff has sometimes been grumpy when I've been away for some time, so I know what that looks like. My own theory is that Jack already had IPs, but his body couldn't control it when he wasn't fed for so long time. He still doesn't want to eat, except that he just took a snail again, after considering it for a veeery long time. I put several snails into his tank, right in front of his nose. He went after them, but stopped a few inches away, and didn't touch them. After a long time of me keeping an eye on him, he finally hunted down one of the snails. I didn't see if he actually ate it, but he did at least attack it. But that was it, and any other snail was absolutely not interesting. The reason I keep trying with snails, is that if he doesn't take them, they can continue zooming around until Jack (hopefully) gets better, and then he can hunt them. They don't pollute the water as uneaten food will do. I will try with a litte bit of shrimp as soon as it's thawed. Just a very little bit, right in front of his nose. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

When it comes to the BGA, there's something special with BGA and puffer tanks in my house. I only get it in puffer tanks. And when I've got it, I just can't get rid of it (Jack's tank is the 3rd tank I am struggling with BGA. In one of the other tanks, I've had it for 1-2 years, and I've tried the turning off the lights trick many times). Turning off the lights works for only a while, and then it all comes back. I think it actually has to do with the frequent water changes I do in the puffer tanks, combined with the bioload a puffer actually is. You are in danger of getting BGA when the nitrate/phosphate conditions are right (or rather, from my point of view, are wrong). The best way of getting rid of it is actually changing the amount of one of them, like increasing the amount of nitrate. But I really don't want to increase the amount of nitrate in a puffer tank! I could have done it in another tank, but not with puffers. But suddenly getting BGA in a tank that's been so nice before, is telling me that something isn't right there. Something has changed. And when the fish gets ill at the same time, I really don't think it's only a coincidence.

How I hate having an ill fish!

[Troender]

I just gave Jack two tiny bits of shrimp, and he ate a little bit of both of the pieces. At the first piece he looked like he had trouble with eating it, so I started to worry about his teeth again. But right after he had given up at the first piece, he gave me a grin, showing his teeth, and they were not long at all (I must admit I am too lazy with feeding with snails - but so far I've never had any teeth problems with any puffer. I guess feeding shrimps with the shell on does some of the work the snails should have done). I put the second piece of shrimp right in front of him, and he started nipping at that one too. They were two tiny bits, and normally they would be gone at once if he had been well (not making him close to being full), but at least he has eaten something! I guess it's the Flubenol doing it's wonders again. I really hope this means that he will start taking more and more food again. But I really had to drop it right in front of him, so he couldn't avoid seeing it.

But if it's IPs (which it looks like it is), I get nervous about all my other tanks. They all share the same equipment I use for water changes (except for my zebra pleco tank, where I never dare to use anything that has been in another tank - they are just too expensive to lose), so I worry I can have transferred the bad stuff to all the tanks. Last time I got IPs, I treated all the tanks that was in danger. I really wish I don't have to do this now, as it means there's 23 more tanks to treat. Advices anyone?

[t1gerbee]

if fish aren't fed for a vey long time then sometimes they just stop eating alltogether and begin starving themselves to death after that.. even if they ARE being fed again...

I'd treat for Ip's just incase but if he never had a problem before with them then why would he suddenly have a problem..

I think he's just been left unfed a bit too long and now needs lots of gentle encouragement to eat again... keep feeding him small bits every couple of hours, he's going to have to be over fed so even with picking he's getting enough food .. and you'll have to deal with the waste by scooping it out and upping the water changes..

he should improve and start being able to eat bigger and bigger bits...

good luck

[Troender]

Thanks for the tip, T1gerbee. I think you are into something. I've not had any problems leaving puffers (or any other fish) unfed for a long time (it's worse having anyone feeding them, because you can't give them water changes when you're not at home), so I'm pretty sure it's IPs. When they go through stress (like not being fed), it's time for the IPs to take control, where the fish earlier were in control of the IPs. But I have had trouble getting fishes with IPs start eating again after being treated for the IPs. It's seems like the system has shut down while they were infected. I once lost 3 discuses because I couldn't make them eat again after they got rid of IPs.

Well, I will leave a lot of living snails in Jacks tanks, so he will have the fun of hunting them if he suddenly feels for a snack. That way he can take a nip when he is up to it. I will continue trying with tiny bits of shrimp, like I did yesterday. He didn't even eat half of the tiny shrimp bits, and they were really small. But he did eat, and that is the most important.

But what will you recommend with my other tanks, that may or may not be infected, as the tanks has shared some equipment? I really don't feel like treating 23 tanks for IPs, but I really don't like the idea that any tank will just keep infecting the others all the time either. How big is the chance for them being affected of the whole thing, when I use the same thing to take the water out of the tanks when doing water changes?

[Troender]

Your tip seems to be working, T1gerbee. Actually I feed him a very, very small piece of shrimp every hour (he doesn't seem to be interested in food too big), and he is getting more and more interested. Right now he even started eating, with me still standing by his tank, which he normally doesn't do even when he is well. And the tiny piece he got, I think he ate all of it. At least I can say for sure that half of it got into his belly, and didn't get spit out again. He still have a long way to go to get all well again, but he is definitely improving! He seems to move a little quicker (he has been moving sooooo slooooow those last days), and seems to be more interested. It's always been a bit difficult to say with Jack, because he has always been so private. He doesn't want to bond with me, and prefers hiding with me around his tank. So feeding has always been dropping the food into his tank, and then leave. He has always been very careful with eating with me around. He is still dark in color though, but I think that will change when the food does it's job. And of course, not to forget, the Flubenol I gave him surely has done it's job as usual. It just has been hard getting him to eat again after the IP attack (that almost sounded like some computer problem. ).

[Agnate]

Haha! Well, good to hear that's he's eating a bit more! Keep up with the small shrimp pieces, as that seems to be getting *some* food into him.

In terms of "relating to a fish", I remember when I was younger I got SO hungry that when the food was finally made, I felt nauseous and couldn't eat it! I had to sit extremely still (so as not to use up too much energy) until I stopped feeling nauseous, then I ate as much food as I could to curb my hunger. It was really weird, but if that happens to puffers with IPs, then I can totally understand why they wouldn't want to eat!

Keep us updated!

[Troender]

He has stopped eating for today. He probably feels very full, being the first day for 3-4 weeks since he ate last (except for the occational snails in the last days). His belly looks like a normal puffer belly right now. Not the belly of a puffer that has eaten (you should se the very fat puffers in the tanks beside him. It's been shrimp evening for them, and they really get a huge tummy when they eat their favorite food), but a very normal puffer shape. His belly does not curve in anymore, and that's an improvement. Well, I will siphon up the leftovers, and probably give him a water change before I go to bed too. This has actually been an interestion lession to learn, trying to make a non eating fish start eating again. I am used to make new puffers learn how to take dead food, but this definitely has been different. It was really strange that he only went for small pieces, and had no interest of bigger ones. I have no idea why. Maybe because a big thing was too much work?

I will try to make him take my shrimp mix tomorrow. If I succeed, that is powerful food, actually made for growing discuses. It contains everything good and healthy, and really would be nutritious if he takes it. It contains garlic too, so I should be tasteful for him (both shrimp and garlic - that must be tempting! ). Listen to this list of ingredients: shrimps, chicken (raw - not much of it), Tetra discus, multi vitamines, garlic (much!), paprika, spinach, peas. I think that was it. It's a food I don't give my puffers often, as it's a bit heavy food, but it's a way of giving them vegetables. And I guess Jack would need some vitamines now. The only problem with giving him this, is that it can be heavy for his digestion, now that he isn't used to eating much. I will be very careful.

But I still haven't got any advice on what to do with my other tanks. How big is the chance that I've transferred the IPs to more tanks, because of the sharing of equipment?

[Agnate]

Honestly, I have no idea about the transfer. IPs only really affect fish who's immune system becomes compromised (usually from being caught and sold). If your fish are healthy and seem fine, I wouldn't worry about it.

You could always try the Pumpkin Seed recipe and soak all of the food in it. It's much less risky to use this than it is to use some sort of medication on only the slightest chance of them actually contracting IPs.

It's your call, though. I personally don't think it will be a problem unless their tanks are plumbed together.

[Troender]

Pumpkin seeds would be difficult to get around here. But I will just continue to keep an eye on my fishes then.

Jack has had his first meal of the day, and his appetite is still improving. I think he will be back to normal in a day or two.

[Troender]

There's definitely no reason to worry anymore. I decided to give him more than the tiny bit I had planned to, and he ate more now than he did all day yesterday. He is still thin, but if he continues like this, that won't last for long. I will continue to feed him more often than normal (several times a day) until he looks like he did before my holiday. The shrimp mix I give him, definitely tastes good (for him. I am not so happy about it. Every time I make it, all other stuff in my freezer tastes garlic afterward, and I hate garlic. Even the icecubes taste garlic, and I can promise you that Coke with garlic taste never will be a success if the Coca Cola company tries to make it! )

The puffers in the tank next to him, are extremely jealous, BTW (my lortetis). They can see the food he gets, and they try chasing it down the wall of their own tank (Jack stays in the corner next to my lortetis, so that's were he gest fed). Hufflepuff, in the tank below Jack, also hopes for food. He has never before experienced me giving food to others, when he doesn't get anything. I think I will have to overfeed all of my puffers, or they will be very angry with me (and Jack), for treating Jack better than them (meaning lots of good food!). I've seen Hufflepuff going "ump" with be before, so it wouldn't surprise me if he does.

And the good thing in this is that I maybe can make Jack bond better to me this way. I give him the food, and he eats with me watching. Then he get a little more, and so on. He definitely has found out that I mean food, and he is so much less afraid of me than he has ever been before. Maybe the little sissy will got back to what gave him his name: a mean killer, and not a wimp! That would be sooo nice. I really wish I could give him a wife or two (mostly wanted two, as he killed his wife when they became alone in the tank at the shop. It would be great for him to have a little lady. If I ever get my hands on one, I will transfer him and her to at tank about twice the size, and see how that will do. I really want a salivator female too, because I find them very beautiful. I must say that the salivators has the most beautiful females amongst all of the carinotetraodons. Well, maybe I should have such a "close feeding" with my least brave puffers, to try to bond with them, and make them understand that I am a good girl, bringing wonderful food, and not a mean girl scaring them around when I change water and stuff like that. Maybe I can tell them that I do all of this out of love for them... I would really try this on Bolla, the puffer I've had the longest (my first puffer ever. How many still have their first puffer alive?). She is really worried, the most worried of all of my puffers I think. I will have to work on making her accept me. But I'm up to it, after seeing the change in Jack!
You never get bored with a house full of puffers!