Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer

[FishFan]

A month ago we found a FFS (Far - 1 hour drive - fish store) that had a particular puffer we'd been looking for. On the phone they said they had the fish in their inventory. We asked if the fish was eating, and were given the answer yes. After we arrived, we found that the puffer was severely emaciated, to the point that it looked like a hollow, concave shell. Before writing him off, we asked to see the puffer eat, and the store clerk fed it a silverside, which it gulped down whole. As we were discussing the purchase, the fish regurgitated the entire silverside. Before it had a chance to re-eat the silverside, it was snapped up by its wrasse and trigger tankmates. We talked the folks in the store into giving the puffer its own tank, but we didn't think it was going to be around much longer, and a store clerk agreed. Yesterday we returned to the store because we were in the area and in a phone call they told us they had a puffer of the same type in inventory. To our surprise, the fish in their inventory was the same fish we'd seen in our previous visit and we found ourselves in a quandary.

Unlike during our previous visit, the little guy greeted us with great excitement. He was very active and displayed that puppy dog personality and awareness of his surroundings that is exactly what we seek in our puffer purchases. Swirling around in his tank were pieces of silverside that had obviously been eaten and regurgitated prior to our arrival. Agreeable to show the puffer eating, the store clerk offered another piece of silverside, which the fish chewed with great attention, but didn't swallow. This puffer is still super concave on the bottom, so much so it is hard to believe it could still be alive, let alone have so much energy.

The problem with this fish could be cyanide fishing, parasites, inability to compete with its prior tank mates for food. or a combination of any of these factors. It is so severely emaciated that it is highly inverted on the bottom; the condition is so bad that we wonder how the fish could still have viscera, but it was bright and interactive and wanted to eat. We've never seen a fish this starved, but it has not given up on life, and we'd like to help the little guy if it's possible. However, we're not into buying fish to watch them die and facilitate the trade of fish in this condition. This is one of those stores that doesn't have a guarantee on sw fish, and we're only considering this fish if they will make an exception in this case. Is there any chance this puffer, a Spiny Box Puffer about 5 inches long, could recover?

[Nick]

Spiny box fish are known for MASSIVE loads of parasites which take over from the stresses of shipping and improper housing. Its system might be reacting poorly to silversides, so perhaps bringing a nightcrawler along to see if it can hold that down is in order as well. SW fish do drink water, so a simple use of a wormer in the tank water should cause a recovery in 24 hours or so if that is the cause of the problem.

[FishFan]

Good ideas, Nick. We've yet to have a fish that would eat silversides (maybe our fish are all weird). We've used Prazipro with good results in sw and fw. What we're worried about is if his body might be too far gone to be able to recover? If he does recover, what could the long-term effects be? I've seen some severely starved mammals, and this fish ranks up there with them. But those mammals were dead-eyed and oblivions, while this fish amazingly has lights on and someone home. He won our hearts, but we don't want to set ourselves up for certain heartbreak.

~ Anne

[t1gerbee]

i think you should give it ago...

i've saved a few fish that were really ill, i've lost a couple too...

but you just have to try... his diet is wrong, try river shrimp, prawn, something more natural to him...

and see if he can hold it down...

it's hard work, but if you can bring him back from the brink, you'll love him all the more.. and if you can't, then at least you tried, and if he could understand being grateful, he would.

Get him for free if possible, or half price....

[Pufferpunk]

It really irks me that since the shop obviously doesn't care to bring it back to health, they'd rather see it die in their shop than to just give it to someone that might save it's life. Nick is right, this species is known for IPs & most that I see in the ocean have concave bellies too. Puffer Queen always says: "Where's there life, there's hope!"

[FishFan]

We phoned the folks at the store again today. We learned that they've been feeding ghost shrimp successfully. They also say that he's eating the silversides, but only if fed small amounts. The person we talked to today was a manager, not the owner and didn't have the authority to drop the price further or offer a guarantee. Though we have little experience with this store, we've seen much higher mortality rates from stores that don't stand behind their salt water fish with at least a short guarantee.

The manager we talked to was rather proud about the fact that she'd brought him back from the brink of death and that she'd kept him alive this long. To their credit, this fish was in better condition this visit vs. the last. Oddly, she acknowledged the fact that the problem with this fish could be internal parasites, yet the store hasn't treated treated him for parasites and is willing to pass the problem of parasites on to the customer.

We've used Prazipro with at least some success on fresh water puffers. For example, after we got our Fahaka puffer home we dosed him with Prazipro. He passed a 5-6 inch worm the next day. We don't know if Prazipro in the water will kill internal embedded parasites. The articles we've read authored by Puffer Queen indicate that she doses fish orally, which may put far more medication in the fish's flesh. She wrote that she wasn't sure if Praziipro in the water was efficacious. The article may be outdated, however, does anyone know if it is. We have not administered medication to fish by syringe orally and don't feel qualified to do so without instruction. We have a local vet who we've used before for fish who might be willing to teach us ($50 appointment).

The above is an update on the situation with this fish. We plan on calling the store owner tomorrow to see if he'll work with us to help this fish. What we've learned from this thread so far is that this fish has a good chance of surviving if it is in good hands, but we want to be sure this fish would be in good hands if we take him home. The advice we're getting from all y'all is great. Please let us know if you know anything else that might help us give this fish a good chance at a long life.

R&A

[crayfish]

My advice would be too give it a shot if you have room. Do try to get it at a discount or with a warranty just in case. But like somebody said above, they don't seem to be too concerned about the fish so long as it manages to get by. Maybe even ask them if they are willing to treat it themselves with prazipro and hold it for you during the process. Tell them that if he gets better you will buy it.

[Nick]

Salt water fish drink a good bit of water, so adding it to the water would probably be effective. My ex gf's figure 8 puffer puffy was the most emaciated thing I have ever seen when we got him. He had 5" of white stringy poo hanging out of him and was a skull and spine with skin pulled tightly around it when we first saw him, but he recovered quickly after worming and put the weight right back on. He was also seemingly far too active for a fish in that state, he'd rest some of the time, but every single time we went past his tank, he'd swim forcefully against the glass towards us, until he broke our hearts and we bought him not thinking he'd live. But he did, and he's still cruising.

[CoreyK]

A fish that most likely has internal parasites, who is active and eats readily, is far from a lost cause; especially a marine fish. It sounds very treatable, and there shouldn't be any long-term effects if all the parasites are removed.
The longer the infection goes on though, the worse.

[FishFan]

Coreyk, Nick, Crayfish, Pufferpunk, and Tigerbee, thank you very much for your words of wisdom. Your feedback on our question has helped us tremendously in bringing clarity of thought to this situation. The apprehensions we had when we first posted have been addressed and we now feel no uncertainty about what to do. If the fish is still there tomorrow, we'll bring him home, and post pics of his condition. If the store insists on making a profit on this fish while refusing to back the quality of their product, we won't go there again. It is our belief that merchants refusing to back their salt water fish for at least 2-3 days are probably suffering high loss rates because they are willing to accept delivery of unhealthy livestock, such as cyanide caught fish.

Thanks y'all. Sounds like we'll have to get our 120 g tank out of storage for him.

Our remaining question is the subtopic, how do we successfully treat a probable extensive parasite infestation on a stressed and delicate sw fish? We'll start this question in a new thread since our original goal for this thread has been achieved.

[t1gerbee]

good luck with him, i wish you all the luck in the world... and hope he's still there when you go back...

I too am fighting for a fish with severe Ip's.. and have ordered the only Uk based wormer i can get..

(i know there are US versions, and people on here can tell you the names....)

fingers crossed for both of us!

[Nick]

In short - the sooner, the better, and in my opinion, with healthy but not excessive feeding; not only so more medication will be consumed and to give the fish nourishment, but so dying worms are pushed out of the bowels by digestion.

[CoreyK]

Good stuff, looking forward to pictures.
I had excellent luck with this stuff:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=12794
The directions say to put drops in the water and the fish will eat them, but that definitely didn't work with my puffers. I fed them bloodworms soaked in the Ultra-Cure and Garlic Guard (to stimulate their appetites) every day for a week straight, and it relieved their sunken bellies within a few days.

[FishFan]

CoreyK,
I wasn't aware that there was a Gel Tek dewormer. We've used Gel Tek antibiotics extensively with our goldfish and Koi. The smaller ones eat it eagerly, but somehow the larger fish seem to have trouble finding it. We have Garlic Guard, blood worms and dried krill we can use to try to get the meds into him. There is a good chance that a store we pass on the way out there will have the medication. We're about to head out now.

[Pufferpunk]

On a different thread the guy is injecting worms with the stuff & the ish ate them up.