I want a Porcupine Puffer, but...

[EagleC]

Hi,
For some time I've wanted to keep a porcupine puffer. Last august I set up a 400L (4'x2'x2') marine tank with 150L sump. I've had a lot of problems with it for various reasons but its getting there. I now have a 130L quarantine tank to ensure that whitespot and brooklynella dont sneak into the tank again

Current stock is 1 regal tang, 5 Humbug Damsels, 6 dwarf hermits, 8-10 cerith snails and about 3 dozen baby turbo snails that hitched in. Theres also a teddy bear crab and a selection of tube worms that came in on one of the rocks.

When I started setting up the idea was to home a porcupine puffer but since then I've added the crabs and snails and thought about adding pepermint shrimp too.
Would adding a baby porcupine result in instant carnage? My research has given mixed responses as to how viable keeping a puffer would be.
What about if I added some mushrooms and soft coral to get some extra colour on the rocks - would he definately destroy them?
What are peoples experiences?
Is there a better puffer for my set up?
How long do they live and how fast do they grow?

While I'd love to own one I dont want to own an unhappy one, or one who makes all the other tank inhabitents unhappy!

Thanks in advance.

[yunachin]

I have had 2 porcupines (two different occasions) in with snails and shrimp before and neither of the two ever ate them (or at least that I am aware of). Both were also living in a semi-reef environment with various leathers, mushrooms and even a few cheap zoas and never had a nip on them. Now my Stars and Stripes is a zoa vacuum.
In my experience, most puffers that are well fed will tend to leave the other things alone...BUT there is still that chance that he finds that coral or hermit crab a tasty little delight over time. Puffers are curious and as some may not completely destroy your coral collection, they might just "taste" it...leaving you with stuff that looks like swiss cheese.
Also I have found that puffers or other coral eating fish tend to steer away from mushrooms due to the bitter flavor that they excrete. You can start with these and see how it goes.
As far as growth rates go I have heard mixed stories. I did not keep mine for longer than a year, but I have seen them pretty hefty. An adult Porcupine puffer requires a tank size of 100 gallons so I think you are good on that aspect.
I say go for it, they are by far a very sociable puffer and will give you great companionship for years to come.

[mikeosoft]

My porcupine would eat any damsels, snails, crabs or shrimp in the tank. I only had sucess keeping a very large hermit with him (the crab was just too big for him to eat). Your Tang is probably big enough that the puffer will leave it alone (although it may harass it).

You should be safe with most mushrooms and soft corals; mine didn't bother any corals in the tank and many people keep them in full reefs.

I would expect the puffer to grow to somewhere around 6" relatively quick, but then slow down after that. They usually don't grow larger than 12" in an aquarium, but it certainly is possible.

I have heard of them living over 10 years in captivity, although I'm sure longer is possible if they're kept healthy.

[EagleC]

he ate damsels?! I thought they'd be too quick.

On a side note, how do you safely get a puffer home from the store and into the QTank ?

I was thinking of using a bucket rather than a bag for transport but they I'm not sure about how to go about acclimiting him, I cant float a bucket in the quarantine!
Then when the quarantine period is over... how should I go about moving him?

[t1gerbee]

this one is tricky as you can't lift them out into the air...

I find if you can get him into a net, but leave the net underwater, then hold the bag to the mouth of the net and genty swing them backwards and forwards (still underwater.)
your puff is then naturally propelled forwards into the bag.

Then double bag it..

Puffers jump, big time, so a bucket would scare me, as there is lots of room to jump out.

At the other end, quarentine for 4 weeks.. ater acclimatising slowly using the drip tube method...
then if all's good after 4 weeks, do the same thing to get him into the main tank.


My valentini ate a peppermint shrimp larger than himself, slowly, over a number of days, but he did it. But my leathers have been fine.

I guess it depends how much you like your inverts.....

[Agnate]

I don't remember if there's an article on dripping around here, but it's pretty easy if you have a small puffer/fish. I picked up a plastic bowl (pretty high, and it comes with a lid). I set up a chair in front of the destination tank (QT in your case), and get a piece of air tubing from my fish drawer (one that's can reach from the bowl to the tank with a lot of extra slack). Take the tubing and put all of it in the tank, putting one end near the top of the water and the rest of the tube at the bottom (to get all the air bubbles out of it). Then, while the tube is still in the water, tie a knot into it (not too tightly, but tight enough that it stays and water will still come through). Then take one end of the tube out of the water (leaving the other end still submerged) and place it into the still-empty bowl. Tighten the knot until there are about 1-2 drips every second (doesn't need to be exact, but you'll get the idea). Empty the bowl back into the tank, and pour the fishy into the bowl (save the bag). Remove the water until there's only about 1 inch above its head, and place the dripping-tube at the top of the bowl's edge (so the new water drips into the old water). Keep an eye on it, but this process should take about 1.5 - 2 hours. About an hour in (or if the bowl starts to get full), remove the water again until there is only an inch about its head and continue dripping. After about two hours, your fish should be acclimated to the water's parameters, so pour the bowl's water and fish back into the bag, turn of the tank's light, and place the bag into the tank so that it gradually heats up (about 15-20 minutes). After that, you can pour your fish from the bag right into the tank! Just make sure not to use a net and expose him to air, as there is a chance he'll suck in air instead of water when he puffs, which won't be good!

[Pufferpunk]

I'd have the LFS catch him in a container & put hin into a old salt bucket with more water. After you get it home, drain off most of the water (until there is only a litle water over the head of the puffer) & drip acclimate, by starting a syphon from your main tank into the bucket with a small airhose & then tying a knot in it, so it drips one drop/second. Drip for about 1/2 hour & scoop the fish up with a conatiner & into the tank.

Option to drip is just pour a cup of water from the tank into the bucket every few minutes for 30 minutes.

[mikeosoft]

Damsel falls asleep, puffer eats it. One of mine evaded the puffer for about a week, but aparently he fell asleep in the open one too many nights.

[Pufferpunk]

I bought damsels for my frogfish to eat & he never caught them.

[Troender]

I wouldn't use a bag for transporting a puffers with visible spines (as the porc). There's a big chance it will puncture it, even if you double bag it. Or it can try to bite its way out. My cochinchinensis tried to bite its way out of the bag. When i came home (after an hour's driving), there was barely any water left in the bag - not enough to completely cover the puffer. Luckily it all went well, and he came out of it without trouble. With that in mind, I transported an even larger puffer for 9 hours last summer. And this time I didn't dare to transport him in a bag, but used a bucket with a cover. That worked without problems. I acclimatized him with taking a cup of water out of the bucket, and then taking a cup of water from the tank into the bucket. And continued with this for a very long time. I didn't have any trouble with that puffer either, except that he jumped out of his tank a few months later (yes, I did have a glass cover on my tank, but he managed to jump out of the feeding hole) I still miss him. He was the most beautiful abei I've ever seen.

[EagleC]

Thanks for all this great info, and the warning about the jumping. I hadn't thought they would be able to jump.

I'll use a covered bucket instead of a bag and clear jug instead of a net, and probably the cup method to acclimitise. Wont be for a few months though, when the weather is warmer and the tank is a little more mature.

[crazedpuffer]

My old porc was able to outswim damsels. He ate about 9 in one night!
Only time he ever attacked a fish too.

[EagleC]

This concerns me, I dont want to terrorise my damsels. Although I'm not terrribly attached to them I do think its my duty as a keeper to keep them as healthy and happy as possible.

Currently the Humbug Damsels are in the quarantine tank, rather than put them back in the display should I return them to the store? I'm pretty sure that he would take them back,

backstory:-
I suffered a brooklynella outbreak right after buying these damsels and 2 clowns from this store and only ever bought livestock for that tank from him so I'm pretty sure thats where it came from. Not that he was aware and they where just in from TMC apparently, none of my lfs have proper quarantine facilities.
I made the mistake of only having a 14 day quarantine period for the damsels and 2 clowns. The QTank was on the dining room table and the wife wanted it back for Christmas. I've lost 6 fish over the last 3 months, 2 in the display right after Christmas and 4 after quarantining and treating the lot. Hence the puffer is not getting bought until I'm certain I'm on top of this and everything is back in the display tank and settled.
Treatment for those that are interested and dont know, is putting all the fish into quarantine for 2 months to allow the display tank to remain fallow. The Parasites in the display die out without a fish host over this length of time. In the quarantine all the fish where treated to a 7 day long term bath of formalin3 and 25% water change every day, plus amguard to protect them from the waste build up (formalin kills the filter). Despite this I had a re-occurance after 6 weeks and lost the last clown, I treated again but still lost another 2 fish before eradicating it.

[bazil323]

I'm trying an acclimatizatin method similar to the drip tube. I didn't have any extra tubing, so I dumped my new bbgs into an ice cream bucket. Then I filled their bag with water from the brackish tank, tied it, and poked a small hole in it so that it dripped slowly. You don't have as much control over the rate with this method. But it's working.