We've purchased a total of 5 dwarf puffers over the last couple weeks or so. Sadly two have died or disappeared. My wife absolutely loves puffers now and thinks they are just so darn cute. And I agree.
Anyway, today we went to a very nice fish store. They had Figure 8 puffers and my wife really wants one. Problem is we've never had anything but freshwater fish. How much harder is brackish to set up and take care of? How does it compare to saltwater?
Ideally she wants to get 100 gallon+ tank and load it up with Figure 8 puffers. She thinks 8 of them would be a lot of fun. Has anyone here had experiences with multiple F 8 puffers?
I'm thinking it might be better to go with the freshwater South American puffers instead, but I can't seem to find them anywhere!
-Kenny
F8 puffers OR the road to ruin
I've only ever had one figure 8 and he lives alone in a 20 gallon tank, but BW isn't much harder than FW. Plants are harder - but if you don't care about live plants that's not an issue.
Just add some marine mix to your bucket of water - either age or stir real good (figure 8s like low BW with SG of 1.005 so you can get away with stirring and letting it sit for just a few minutes), and add the water.
You'll need SW aquarium mix (not aquarium salt), a hydrometer (or is it a hygrometer? I have one, but I've been mowing the lawn for 4 hours and am a bit addled right now
), and you're set.
Oh, an aragonite/crushed coral substrate is best, too.
Eric
Just add some marine mix to your bucket of water - either age or stir real good (figure 8s like low BW with SG of 1.005 so you can get away with stirring and letting it sit for just a few minutes), and add the water.
You'll need SW aquarium mix (not aquarium salt), a hydrometer (or is it a hygrometer? I have one, but I've been mowing the lawn for 4 hours and am a bit addled right now
), and you're set.Oh, an aragonite/crushed coral substrate is best, too.
Eric
Regarding a brackish tank set-up and maintenance compared to a fresh water tank -- with all respect to puffer_archer -- I find it requires more work, is more complicated, creates a bigger mess, and costs more. It also demands more equipment.
To take my own modest case, I have a single GSP in a 40-gallon tank. In order to manage a smooth 50% water change on a weekly basis, I must have available at least 20 gallons of brackish water, mixed to the precise specific-gravity and ready to go all at once. This entails keeping another tank underneath my puffer tank that's set up with a heater, a power head, and a strong pump that can lift the new water several vertical feet through a hose into the tank above. Getting the water in and out of both tanks inevitably results in some spilling and splashing of BRACKISH water; instead of simply mopping the water up, I'm compelled to rinse these surfaces with fresh water first. Making sure the the specific gravity is just right demands a process of adding salt and adding water in small, gradual increments that takes time and can be frustrating; it also necessitates the use of a rather delicate (and expensive) device (the refractometer) that's not the simplest to use. The filters get caked with salt, as does the glass cover of the tank and basically anything else -- even the light housing -- where water occasionally spashes or drips. And of course the salt (marine mix) itself is not cheap: I buy it in 5-gallon drums that weigh a ton and need to be stored and then carried about. Lastly, I find the sort of algae that grows in brackish water to be even more ghastly than its fresh- or marine-water counterparts, and there are no plants or other forms of life that you can introduce into a brackish tank to retard its growth.
To take my own modest case, I have a single GSP in a 40-gallon tank. In order to manage a smooth 50% water change on a weekly basis, I must have available at least 20 gallons of brackish water, mixed to the precise specific-gravity and ready to go all at once. This entails keeping another tank underneath my puffer tank that's set up with a heater, a power head, and a strong pump that can lift the new water several vertical feet through a hose into the tank above. Getting the water in and out of both tanks inevitably results in some spilling and splashing of BRACKISH water; instead of simply mopping the water up, I'm compelled to rinse these surfaces with fresh water first. Making sure the the specific gravity is just right demands a process of adding salt and adding water in small, gradual increments that takes time and can be frustrating; it also necessitates the use of a rather delicate (and expensive) device (the refractometer) that's not the simplest to use. The filters get caked with salt, as does the glass cover of the tank and basically anything else -- even the light housing -- where water occasionally spashes or drips. And of course the salt (marine mix) itself is not cheap: I buy it in 5-gallon drums that weigh a ton and need to be stored and then carried about. Lastly, I find the sort of algae that grows in brackish water to be even more ghastly than its fresh- or marine-water counterparts, and there are no plants or other forms of life that you can introduce into a brackish tank to retard its growth.
Last edited by Peter on Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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YBeNormal
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OK, I'll have to weigh in with the dissenting opinion. I have two GSPs in a 55-gallon tank. This is in addition to a 55 and three 10-gallon FW community tanks and two other tanks waiting to be put to use. Yes, the marine mix does cost more and (although you didn't mention this) maintaining a variety of foods for GSPs and other puffers takes a little bit of advance planning. It also takes a few minutes to mix and measure the water for the BW tank, but I have this down to an art now and it rarely takes more than five minutes or so to get the SG right.
I use a python to drain the BW tank and to refill the storage tank--no spills--and a pump to move the water from the storage tank to the main tank--again, no spills. I have minor accumulations of salt that must be cleaned off, but nothing near the levels you described. Are you using bio-wheels or air stones in your BW tank? IRT algae, I've learned to live with it to a small degree in all of my tanks and try to keep it under control by not overfeeding and by regulating the amount and duration of light on each tank.
The additional costs for equipment depends largely on how much manual effort you are willing to expend. Many people do just fine with 5-gallon buckets and a $10 float-arm hydrometer. I happen to be rather lazy and chose to go with a refractometer, python, extra storage container for the marine mix, pumps, etc. Even without all of the optional hardware that I eventually chose to purchase (and even more that I have on order), I consider the workload of maintaining a BW tank to be only slightly higher than FW. YMMV though…
I use a python to drain the BW tank and to refill the storage tank--no spills--and a pump to move the water from the storage tank to the main tank--again, no spills. I have minor accumulations of salt that must be cleaned off, but nothing near the levels you described. Are you using bio-wheels or air stones in your BW tank? IRT algae, I've learned to live with it to a small degree in all of my tanks and try to keep it under control by not overfeeding and by regulating the amount and duration of light on each tank.
The additional costs for equipment depends largely on how much manual effort you are willing to expend. Many people do just fine with 5-gallon buckets and a $10 float-arm hydrometer. I happen to be rather lazy and chose to go with a refractometer, python, extra storage container for the marine mix, pumps, etc. Even without all of the optional hardware that I eventually chose to purchase (and even more that I have on order), I consider the workload of maintaining a BW tank to be only slightly higher than FW. YMMV though…
The SG you're gonna be keeping an F8 at - 1.005 to 1.008 - is a doddle to get right...it's the higher SGs that take a lot of dissolving and waiting.
I went from never having even had a fairground goldfish to keeping F8s, and had no probs raising the SG, so I'd recommend an F8, but do a bit more background reading first, and you'll have to get a saltwater test kit, the hydrometer, a tub to mix the salty water in.
When you're set, give us a post and we'll talk you through raising the SG. Your new F8 would most likely have been in FW at the shop, so let him settle for a bit, then start VERY slowly raising the SG with every water change.
You could get away with two in a 20 - 25 G, but make sure you've got an emergency evacuation tank in case they kick off.
Pami.
I went from never having even had a fairground goldfish to keeping F8s, and had no probs raising the SG, so I'd recommend an F8, but do a bit more background reading first, and you'll have to get a saltwater test kit, the hydrometer, a tub to mix the salty water in.
When you're set, give us a post and we'll talk you through raising the SG. Your new F8 would most likely have been in FW at the shop, so let him settle for a bit, then start VERY slowly raising the SG with every water change.
You could get away with two in a 20 - 25 G, but make sure you've got an emergency evacuation tank in case they kick off.
Pami.
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RTR
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My setups are more like ybenormal's, and I almost never have any issues with spills or splashes. My reservoirs are tubed and pumped, so aging and mixing is trouble-free from python refill through dedicated pump and tubing delivery to the use tank and back to Python refill. Salt creep from light BW is no worse than from my moderately hard FW, or maybe less because I pay more attention to prevention with BW.
Where's the fish? - Neptune
I'll agree with the group that for low BW at least it take me maybe 5 minutes longer than cleaning and filling a FW tank. The salt amount is low, so the cost for salt (high for a box) is really low since one box lasts so long.
Maybe with a 55 gallon tank and higher level BW it'd be more work, but not for a figure 8 in a 20 gallon tank.
Eric
Maybe with a 55 gallon tank and higher level BW it'd be more work, but not for a figure 8 in a 20 gallon tank.
Eric
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Woland
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Yhis is a good place to start:
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html
One of my Puffertanks (42 gallons) is brackish an I find the additional workload to be no drag at all.
I premix my saltwater at full marine strength and dilute it until wanted SG is reached.
I am one of those sick individuals who has a python on the shelf,
but not using it...
Its connection doesnt fit the water supply and Ive never gotten round to fixing it, probably because my method works.
Water siphoned from the tank into the drain, using a hose with a protective gadget on the end that goes into the tank.
Same hose connected to the powerhead (strong one) in the container where I keep my brackish water, makes new water flow into the tank.
Piece of cake really.
Had som problems with algea in the start, but nothing cutting down on lighting and adding some Mollys couldnt fix.
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html
One of my Puffertanks (42 gallons) is brackish an I find the additional workload to be no drag at all.
I premix my saltwater at full marine strength and dilute it until wanted SG is reached.
I am one of those sick individuals who has a python on the shelf,
but not using it...
Its connection doesnt fit the water supply and Ive never gotten round to fixing it, probably because my method works.
Water siphoned from the tank into the drain, using a hose with a protective gadget on the end that goes into the tank.
Same hose connected to the powerhead (strong one) in the container where I keep my brackish water, makes new water flow into the tank.
Piece of cake really.
Had som problems with algea in the start, but nothing cutting down on lighting and adding some Mollys couldnt fix.
Regards
Woland
Woland