The Puffer Forum

Okay so one more question for now.

Other than the API Saltwater test kit is there anything else I should get for testing the water parameters?

Fiji live rock seems popular here so have a little look at that. Do you have something to measure your salt level?

bertie 83 wrote:Fiji live rock seems popular here so have a little look at that. Do you have something to measure your salt level?

I've seen a bunch of it for sale online. Since I am not familiar with any of it I wasn't sure if any was better quality, better for filtration, etc.

I'm ordering a hydrometer for now, may get a refractometer later on.

I was thinking more along the lines of calcium, phosphate, and whatever else. I've seen a few other tests but wasn't sure if any was really necessary.

If you get the api master test kit I am fairly sure it includes some or all of those, calcium and phosphate are needed for corals but not sure that you need them for a fowlr tank. Someone should be here shortly to confirm or correct that though.

The API SW Master kit is only pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Seachem does a SW Calcium test kit.

RTR wrote:The API SW Master kit is only pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Seachem does a SW Calcium test kit.

That what I read the API covered and noticed a few other tests. Are any other necessary,besides API, for FOWLR?

Nope, you've got it covered.

Re: Pufferpunk's comment above: That is true, but only IF you promise yourself that you never under any circumstances use a commercial buffer in the tank; and also that you will monitor the pH and nirate routinely and record it so that if the pH drifts downward and/or the nitrate drifts up, you can and will do water partials (back to back if necessary) to restore it. Commercial buffers can and are likely to destroy a FOWLR tank. Well-kept FOWLR tanks can and should run indefinitely. But they cannot if not handled properly. The only trick is to do partials as needed. They do not need (read as:require) partials at the levels of bacterially filtered tanks (conventional bacterial filtration, as in FW and BW). If you keep them stable they can be super tanks, but if they degenerate, they can go down the tubes fast and wipe out. The are not the cheapest tanks initially, but their total life cycle costs are definitely the lowest and easiest to operate. But you need to check and respond when they need a partial.

Pufferpunk and a number of others here can run these tanks (and reef tanks) practically in her sleep and operate them very well. But novices need to check routinely until they really understand what they see and sense

HTH

Thanks for all the info..but

..what things are considered commercial buffers?

I hadn't intended on using anything, as far as chemicals go, for lets say lowering nitrates (was in petsmart today and its one that stuck out).



I purchased my tank today. The 75 gallon I intended on getting was sold, it was used and at a good price, before I could get it. So I made a trip out of town today to go to Petsmart. They had a pretty good sale on a 60 gallon with stand so I picked it up. Its set up in my living room now. Waiting to add water until I get salt, test kit, etc.

I'm doing pretty much all my other purchases necessary to get the tank set up online. I've got all I need now ordered, I believe, except the base/live rock.

Bottles from the pet store that claim to adjust the pH, or may be called buffers. Most of these will very briefly move the pH up or down, but do not really do anything to correct the loss of the electrolytes which should be present and have been used up. Commercial "buffers" or "pH adjusters" are >95% worthless and actually increase the pollution levels in the tank. Their effects are quite short-lived and the majority of them promote the growth of nuisance algae. They are not only a waste of time and money, they actually increase pollution levels by add inappropriate electrolytes to the water. Pet store employees are trained to push their sales. As almost no pet store employees or owners have any real understanding of aquarium water chemistry, they do not know how to correct water problems (most of the time it just needs water changes - which even in SW are cheaper than buffers, which do not work other than short-term on the pH and do nothing, repeat nothing, to correct water chemistry.

Remember, pH is a measure of water chemistry's stability over time. By itself it means nothing. What matters are changes in pH over time. Water changes help restore the original electrolytes and thus restore the original water chemistry. Water changes remove pollution while restoring the original water electrolyte profile. Those are two quite separate things. Too many hobbyists think water partials are just to remove pollution - a serious error. Restoring the electrolytes which have been used up is equally important. "Buffers" do not and cannot do that.

RTR wrote:Bottles from the pet store that claim to adjust the pH, or may be called buffers. Most of these will very briefly move the pH up or down, but do not really do anything to correct the loss of the electrolytes which should be present and have been used up. Commercial "buffers" or "pH adjusters" are >95% worthless and actually increase the pollution levels in the tank. Their effects are quite short-lived and the majority of them promote the growth of nuisance algae. They are not only a waste of time and money, they actually increase pollution levels by add inappropriate electrolytes to the water. Pet store employees are trained to push their sales. As almost no pet store employees or owners have any real understanding of aquarium water chemistry, they do not know how to correct water problems (most of the time it just needs water changes - which even in SW are cheaper than buffers, which do not work other than short-term on the pH and do nothing, repeat nothing, to correct water chemistry.

Remember, pH is a measure of water chemistry's stability over time. By itself it means nothing. What matters are changes in pH over time. Water changes help restore the original electrolytes and thus restore the original water chemistry. Water changes remove pollution while restoring the original water electrolyte profile. Those are two quite separate things. Too many hobbyists think water partials are just to remove pollution - a serious error. Restoring the electrolytes which have been used up is equally important. "Buffers" do not and cannot do that.

Thanks for that explanation. I've came across several things of the sort but have passed right over them and haven't even though about needing them. I will certainly stay away from them now.

Excellent - keep ignoring them.

Okay so another question just came up. I'm glad it even came to mind before it became an issue though. How far should I have the tank from the wall ? I guess the only thing I need to make space for is a skimmer but I have no idea how much space one requires. I was kinda leaning towards bak pak style, it does seem to look slimmer than others. The tank is set up in my living room, kinda crowded, so moving it out a lot could possibly be an issue. It might could go on the side if needed but I'd prefer on back. Guess I can better decided once I know how much space is needed.

Besides the skimmer and cords for powerheads,heaters, etc. I can't think of anything else that would factor in how I need to move the tank.

It isn't filled yet as I'm waiting on my order to arrive with my salt and other items I'll be needing. But I will definitely need to scoot it out a bit, if needed, beforehand obviously.


One other thing thats related, more or less. The tank is on a wooden stand and my flooring is laminate. There is a bit of a wobble now but again the tank is empty. Would it be a good idea to place something underneath the stand for stability/protecting the floor/etc? If so, what would be best and safe?

If its just wonky laminate you should be fine so long as its level. Get a couple of friends to sit on the stand and see if it sits level.

So I've ordered my base rock from my LFS and it will be here next Wednesday. I have 25lbs coming. I am intending on ordering 25lbs of live rock online here really soon, want to have all my rock at once.

Is that enough for a 60 gallon to begin or should I look into getting more soon?