The Puffer Forum

bertie 83 wrote:A 40 g breeder would be ok if you add a reasonable sized sump. Don't let sumps concern you they are incredibly simple and very useful. Quarantine is well worthwhile as you will have live rock in the tank and you never know what a puffer may come in with as they are wild caught. Others may not agree with that tho so please wait confirmation. As for cycling, you need to wait for any die off from your rock and watch your params until stable. Live rock skimmer and powerheads are all necessary

What would be a reasonable sized sump for that size tank? And how does that even work? I would need to have a place to hold the sump underneath the tank correct? They are kind of concerning me, haha, I'm sure they aren't that complicated but like I've said, trying to understand all of this for the first time and kind of at once is a bit overwhelming. And I'm probably making it more complicated than I should.

I assumed those were necessary, I just didn't know if I was missing something. With cycling, I'd be able to place the live sand/rock in the tank, with saltwalter of course, and check my param until stable and thats it correct? How long can that take ?

And I hadn't even thought about the need to quarantine so I would have to set up something for that as well.

I should be able to get a pretty good deal on an aquarium and I know the live rock will be a bit pricey. If I was to start off with at lease half live rock and half base would that cause any issues with cycling? And until all of base rock becomes live would I be safe with at least half or so live and with protein skimmer, etc? Or would I be better off getting more or all live rock from the beginning and waiting on a skimmer?

Good site to learn about sumps: http://www.melevsreef.com. He makes them, too.

Pufferpunk wrote:Good site to learn about sumps: http://www.melevsreef.com. He makes them, too.

Thanks! Thats a lot of help.

You can use base rock to bulk out your live rock, this would just mean your filtration would not be as effective from the get go. However your gsp will be a juvi. As he grows so does his bio-load. So my guess is if you add 1lb per gallon live rock and 0.5 lb per gallon base rock +\- you should be fine as your base rock will seed over time.

Personally, I'd do it the other way around--1lb BR-1/2lb LR. It's a small fish in a large tank. Not much bioload at all.

Even better. I wasn't 100% so played safe lol.

bertie and Pufferpunk have covered almost all the responses I would have made, so just +1 to both their replies.

Live rock largely or completely replaces conventional aerobic bacterial cycling. That removes the need/requirement for bacterial cycling. The aerobic bacteria in and on the rock do that task for you, and the anaerobic bacteria deep in the rock's internal crevasses do the denitrification for you. Live rock aloe is a far better filtration process than is available in fresh or BW, and better even than any other available in SW without LR. When you add a good skimmer, that removes much of the dissolved organic compounds. If you finish off with a 24/7 lighted refugium with passive return to the display, you will cover a lot of the excess simple minerals which can build up in excess plus some DOCs as well as providing a range of 'pods to the display for better overall system health. That total package is as close as the hobby can currently get to a true closed system. You will still require some water partials, but both smaller and fewer partials than are needed for any other hobby set-up.

HTH

Pufferpunk wrote:http://www.marcorocks.com/dryrock.aspx

The employees I spoke to at one pet store seemed surprised when I mentioned the mature size of a GSP, saying they hadn't seen any bigger than maybe 3inches, maybe less.

That's because most have no idea of the real requirements for any puffer, yet alone a GSP. Both of mine acquired 6+"

Oh yeah I've noticed. I had been researching puffer before going into the LFS, when I went to see if they would be able to get what I wanted, so felt I already had pretty good knowledge on the subject. Just from reading through here I've came across numerous mention of the lack of knowledge on puffers when it comes to LFS employees. When an employee actually mentioned brackish and saltwater for the GSP that surprised me.

Thanks for all the responses and advice.

I actually picked up the 29 gallon today. I thought it was a good deal as I only paid $65 for the tank, hood, stand, filter (won't be using for SW), and heater. I did intend on going larger, still may now, but believe I will wait as I know I should be moving into a house (live in a trailer now) in the next year or less. So both space and the weight can be an issue now with a larger tank setup. The guy I purchased the 29gallon from has a really good deal on a 90gallon that I really would like to try and at least get now and maybe store until I could set it up.

I'll be okay with a 29 gallon with a GSP baby/juvenile in the 29 gallon alone (maybe a hermit or so for cleanup) if I have the right setup correct?

I can do a good bit, maybe all live rock, from the start since I didn't spend much on the tank itself. I will also get live sand, skimmer, and powerhead(s). Is that all I would need? I don't want to do a sump until I have a larger setup and get the hang of this more first. Any other recommendations or specific advice on what skimmer/powerhead/etc?

Do not buy live sand, it is ammonia in a bag. Use regular sand. Tbh a 29g marine tank with l/r will not grow out a gsp that much. Add a large sump to put l/r in and u will be good to go for now at least

bertie 83 wrote:Do not buy live sand, it is ammonia in a bag. Use regular sand. Tbh a 29g marine tank with l/r will not grow out a gsp that much. Add a large sump to put l/r in and u will be good to go for now at least

I know its a little small, and smaller than I intended going full marine. I could probably make the space for the 90 gallon but the weight is what worries me with where I live. I would rather wait until I won't have any need to worry about weight.

Would he/she be okay in the 29 for about a year or less? I thought with just the one and being small to begin with I'd be okay for a bit especially having the live rock and skimmer. If thats the case with the live sand I'll skip the live part.

Setting up a sump still worries me even after looking at the link and doing a bit more research. So I could set up more (or as much as it would hold) of the live rock in the sump instead of the tank housing the GSP and it be just as effective?

The stand it came with is just a metal one, no where to hide anything, but it does have a second shelf that can hold a 10gallon.

I believe a 10gal sump will suffice. Get a few good pieces of live rock and a fist sized clump of speghetti algae and get a grow lamp to place over it and you are good to go. I had thought about doing that for my marine 55gal GSP tank. Also if you dont want to use PVC You can get a couple 3/4 inch hoses and run them thru two fairly strong and simple powerheads such as a Maxijet and you should be fine.

sgtmyers88 wrote:I believe a 10gal sump will suffice. Get a few good pieces of live rock and a fist sized clump of speghetti algae and get a grow lamp to place over it and you are good to go. I had thought about doing that for my marine 55gal GSP tank. Also if you dont want to use PVC You can get a couple 3/4 inch hoses and run them thru two fairly strong and simple powerheads such as a Maxijet and you should be fine.

That's good to know. I can probably manage doing a 10 gallon sump, once I completely understand the setup and all, without too many problems. I would prefer hose over the pipe if it works just as well.

Would I be able to use a skimmer and heater in the sump (if it'd fit)? Would I even need to worry about a skimmer if I am doing the sump or even wait? I need an overflow and pump for the sump setup then the powerheads in the tank correct?

How should I distribute the live rock, like between the tank housing the GSP and the tank for the sump?

Couldn't you have at least gotten a 55g?

Pufferpunk wrote:Couldn't you have at least gotten a 55g?

I was looking and bought from what was available to me used at the moment, to a point. It was kind of a quick buy and now I'm even debating whether or not I'm happy with it, due to the size mainly. I do know of a 70 and 90 gallon used. I like the idea of the 90 because it does include the stand and a few extras as well for what I believe is a good price. But I am worried about the weight of the 90 gallon especially adding in the amount of live rock I would need. Thats a lot of the reason I went with the 29 gallon and don't want to go too big at the moment.Though my boyfriend seems like he wants to use the 29 gallon (he has a 10gallon currently) so it would still be used either way it seems.

I am debating whether I want go get the 70 or 90. I've seen the 70 in person and it looks pretty width and long vs high, which is what I prefer.

If I was to look into getting the 70 (since it will be a little lighter and require less money overall) would I be able to keep it maintained/stable easily without a sump? Also, with just starting out and it being much larger of course, especially for one or two GSPs, could I lessen the amount of live rock to begin with? Basically, to get a 70gallon up and running as full marine for 1-2 GSPs what would I need exactly to get it started if I chose not to do a sump?

ETA: I also worry about transport and all when I do move, which should be in the next year. I know that a 70 gallon being bigger/heavier and all would be harder to move in those aspects but would it be easier when it comes to maintaining the stability in the tank? I have never moved a tank to another location, especially another address, plus never dealt with saltwater.