The Puffer Forum

Bred wrote:Flusher, let's not get into a fruitless semantic argument.

My initial comment was intended as a bit of a joke. I admit; it is very easy to lure me into a debate (I took a lot of Philosophy courses back in university), but no hard feelings on my end anyway.

Bred wrote:You have committed to those tank sizes and you have committed to those species and by all means, go for it.

Nope - I'm not committed.

These tanks may house my amphibians in the future, after I build a new tank. Like I said:

"I'm already working on a tank upgrade..."

Even if I don't upgrade, "grossly cramped conditions" doesn't quite describe any of the tanks I've kept these puffers in (given their size at the time, at least).

I might convert this tank rack into a coldwater set-up for my ACFs, if I can find something suitable to put in the other tank. Because of the overflow plumbing, the water level has to be high, so I'm going to look into a totally aquatic newt or something of the like.

On the other hand, these two puffers don't swim along the glass sides nearly as much as most of my other puffers. They seem content staying more in the middle of the tank. So, I'm not in a rush.

Bred wrote:Slightly OT, I'm very curious to hear about the construction process of these tanks. How tough is it to make a tank? Did you get the glass precut, and what are you using as a frame? Any pics you can offer? This is a project I'd like to learn more about approaching.

It was actually really easy to make the stand and the tanks. I designed a few stands, conferred with some local hobbyists about structural integrity, settled on a design, then slapped some 2x4s together with plenty of screws. For larger, heavier tanks, the design would definitely have to be upgraded for support.

I had all the glass custom-cut and drilled, bought some aquarium-safe silicone, then assembled them and installed the overflow bulkheads. (I could only find white silicone; the clear stuff looks better.) I used a razor blade to trim off excess silicone once it had cured.

The bottom glass panel has to be the full tank size (outside dimensions of the footprint). The front and back panels are the full length, and the full height minus the width of the glass from the bottom panel. The sides are the same height as the front and back, minus the width of the glass from the front and pack panels. (You have to remove the widths of the glass to ensure a snug fit.)

Working with silicone can be messy. It takes some practice, but it's pretty much fool-proof to get a good seal if you use lots.

The tanks don't have frames, but there are 2" strips of glass on either end at the top of the tanks for added strength. (For longer tanks, a thicker glass would be placed across the width in the middle of the tank, too.) For an unframed tank, it needs to sit evenly on styrofoam. I use 1/2" pink insulation foam - it's thinner, cleaner, and seems to work just as well as the thicker white styrofoam.

After installing the bulkheads, I painted the back panels black. After putting the tanks in place, I added some swinging wood panels to block the light above the tanks, and I put some little doors on the bottom of the stand. I'm thinking about giving the stand a good sanding, then either staining it or adding more decorative wood panels for a more finished look.

Here are some photos.

The stand schematics:



The stand:


The tanks in place, and the overflow plumbing:


The tanks after being filled:


I had just added the sand before taking the picture, so the water was cloudy for a day or two.

Bred wrote:/also - I'm still not sure about those tank heights. All I can say is try it and let us know what you think.
//also also - Be sure to cover the tanks well - we don't want any jumpers!

I'm not comfortable with really deep substrate. It's too hard to maintain (gravel siphons and sand aren't a great match), I'm a bit worried about anaerobic spots, and I've watched these puffers bury themselves. They don't dig vertically, so I don't think they need 6" of sand. 2.5" seems like enough. That being said, I'm very comfortable with the water depth. Eyeballing what these puffs will be at full-size, I think double their body length in water depth is sufficient. That's about what I've got.

Yes - covers to prevent jumping is one of my priorities.

Wow, I'm impressed! You're one busy guy!

Very impressive work... Thanks for the detailed rundown!!

Also, just to be clear, the "grossly cramped" comment was aimed at attitudes which have pervaded in the past; not directed at you. The thing to keep in mind is that although advice in these threads is aimed at the person asking questions, the advice needs to be general and comprehensive enough to cover all the bases for all readers. Information taken out of context of particular threads is the #1 cause of internet misconceptions. Hence, great care being taken to stress the distinction between adequate and ideal housing.

Your setup looks great. Looking forward to seeing how it develops!

Thanks for the comments, guys.

Bred wrote:the "grossly cramped" comment was aimed at attitudes which have pervaded in the past; not directed at you.

Oh, I know. That's why I used a more positive emoticon, not one of those angry little fellows.

BTW, I do agree with minimizing sand substrate depth.

RTR wrote:BTW, I do agree with minimizing sand substrate depth.

After moving most of the sand from the 13 gallon tanks to the 30 gallon tanks, it was really apparent that sand is hard to keep clean. I rinsed more crap out of the used sand than I did from the fresh bag of sand.

I've decided to sell almost all of my plants and stick with mostly hornwort in all of my tanks. It doesn't need to root, so I can really reduce the substrate depth. I use suction cups to hold it near the substrate, thus letting it grow upwards like rooted plants. I might tie it down to rocks, too.

I confess to having used suction cups to hold stem plants as well, but usually stuck to the sides/back of the tank.

RTR wrote:I confess to having used suction cups to hold stem plants as well, but usually stuck to the sides/back of the tank.

Ha ha - you make that sound like a bad thing to do. I haven't tried tying down the hornwort yet, but I'll probably have to for visual complexity away from just the aquarium sides.

A bit OT for this thread, but what puffers would go good in my spare tanks? I'm turning my four 5 gallon tanks into two 10 gallon tanks (five ADFs in one, four DPs in the other - 1M/3F). I have a 48" 20 gallon on top for my modestus puffs, but hope to put a couple of SAPs in there once I finally get some. I'll have three 15 gallon tank free really soon.

One of the 15 gallon tanks will probably have to house the two modestus puffs when they get older and less active, to make room for the SAPs if I ever get them.

Any suggestions? I'm thinking Red Eye and Red-Tailed Red Eye, and maybe a Fang's puffer. I haven't found any of these locally yet is the problem.

LOL! It is exactly that, but it does keep the bare-bottomed veggie filters in an easy-upkeep mode. It does draw some double-takes and comments from folks who havve not seen it belore, but I perversely enjoy that.

I'd like to see a photo of that, RTR.

I just did some calculations. My two new 10 G tanks will have 22" x 13" footprints (286 square inches), which is actually slightly larger than a standard 20 gallon footprint (276 square inches).

How many DPs do you figure I could put in there? I have four DPs (two in each 5 gallon partition), but I'm wondering if a fifth would be pushing it after I slice out the partitions...

(Reminder: I'm running on a sump with over 30 gallons of "unswimmable" water in my system to reduce the bioload.)

I limit my tanks to 3 DPs in a heavily planted ten, 3 gallons per fish, with refuges and limited sight lines through the tank. That is about 200 square inches, so ~67 sq. in. per fish. In a 15 (same footprint as a standard 20H) I had 5 at one time, but moved them up to a 29 (~360 sq.in.) as I thought them over-crowded. I don't think water depth plays much role with these fish other than dilution of wastes.

Yeah, I'll stick with 4. Two per 5 gallons looks stocked enough, even though removing the divider between the tanks might open up a bit of space for one more territory.

My male used to beat up on another male when I had my first three DPs, but it gets along quite well with the female. I've had them for almost 8 months. The two new females I picked up recently, but the last owner got them from the same batch as my two. So, these should all be mature adults by now. The aggression hasn't been too bad at all.

I think a shallower tank might be better for these little fish, since it makes it easier to block lines of sight. There's less chance of an "aerial" view if they are at the surface, enticing them to "dive bomb" another puffer that they wouldn't have seen if they stayed closer to the substrate.

I'm not comfortable with really deep substrate. It's too hard to maintain (gravel siphons and sand aren't a great match), I'm a bit worried about anaerobic spots, and I've watched these puffers bury themselves. They don't dig vertically, so I don't think they need 6" of sand. 2.5" seems like enough.



http://di.cx/stuff/congo_03.wmv

Sweet video! My guys do that, but they've never pointed themselves so vertically.

When I move all my tanks, I've been planning to split my suvattii and miurus tanks in a manner that gives them about a third of the tank of deep sand (looks like it'll have to be +3"), and the rest much shallower. That way, there will be less to maintain and it'll be easier to know where to stir up the sand to prevent gas pockets.

I've been keeping an eye on them to see where would be the best corner to keep the sand deep. I've also got some nice slate rocks coming out of my F8 tank soon, so they'll be getting more hiding spots in the near future.

(My F8s are being sold tonight - my new place can't fit that tank. )