Info wanted about my Figure of Eight Puffers!!!

[sophie]

Hi there I'm new to this forum and hope to pick your minds for some information please!
To start off with I have fallen in love with some Figure of Eight Puffers and am thinking of buying a couple.
I've got a few questions about htem and there set up.I know there Brackish.
1.In your opinions could i keep 2 together with other fish(I have been told I could keep a Plec and Mollies with them)?
2.What size tank for 2 together as I know they can get territorial(but have been told that if bought together can get on)?
3.What equipment is needed I'm slowly going to buy everything I need. I have a thermometer and salt(for brackish water) so far. I know i need a hydrometer to measure the salinity of the water.Also what size filter is appropriate for the size tank I need as i've read that they need strong filteration?
4.Air pumps and bubbles will I be able to put something that bubbles in with them or would that stress the puffers as in our other tank we have an ario color and I like the effect of it and would like to put something that bubbles in with them?
5.Cycling the tank how do I do this properly and how long does it usually take?
6.Bacteria in the filter? Can I use Stress Zyme(biological filteration booster) to get the bacteria into the filter to start iut off?
7.Ornaments/Plants? I know I will need caves and plants what plants are best to get for them I've been told that they will make caves in the right sort of plant so is it best to get just plants then see if they make a cave?

Sorry for all the questions but i want to get this right before I buy my fish.I only have coldwater at the moment. Any help gratefully excepted.
Sorry again but I'm really new to this and don't want to bring the fish home to something thats not right for them!!!!!

Thanks Sophie.

[Boxermom]

Welcome. All of these answers can be found in our Library and Pufferpedia.

Do NOT use Stress Zyme or any other bacteria crap in a bottle. It does nothing but waste your money and add to the bioload. The only thing that works and has the correct live bacteria is BioSpira. Accept nothing else.

[Hilly]

a tank around 25 gallons would be fine for 2 F8's. Get something a little bigger if you want to try other fish with them.

Most of the commonly available plecos will be strictly freshwater so they would be incompatible.

There's a cycling article in the library. To go brackish you will need marine salt and a hydrometer or refractometer to measure salinity. Buckets and a powerhead/airpump to pre mix the salt before adding it to the tank and you will be set.

Steer clear of bogwood for tank decore, interesting rockwork and fake plants are easiest to do, if you have a green thumb then you could try some brackish plants, do a forum search there has been plenty of topics on brackish plants.

[Myaj]

1 & 2. If you want 2 figure 8's you are looking at 25-30 gallons for them, more if you want to keep any other fish. Mollies get pretty big (can get up to 6") and are frantic eaters, they often steal food from the puffers just by moving faster. Some people get them to mix well, others do not.

3. For the filter we generally recommend one that can handle a flow rate that is 10x your tank gallons. So for example, if your tank is 30 gallons, you want a filter with at least 300gph. Recommended brands are AquaClear for the hang on back type, or if you want a cannister (quieter but more expensive) Eheims, Fluvals or Filstars. Marine salt and hydrometer are really the only "extra" things. Maybe an extra air pump and airstone (along with the previously mentioned bucket) to premix tank changing water.

4. Bubbles are usually no good with brackish water, simply because as they pop they spray the water and salt all over. The water evaporates, the salt doesn't. Makes a coating of salt on anything it touches.

5 & 6. Look in our library for a cycling article, there's a great one. It can be as short as a few days or as long as a few weeks, depending on how you do it. Usually it will take around 2 weeks I think, if starting from scratch, but its been a long time since I've done a fishless cycle. Cycle, etc has been tested by plenty of people I know and found not to work at all to cycle a tank, if you want an instant cycle you'd be better off going the Biospira route or using established media from another tank to "kick start" your cycle. Remember, with brackish, either start at the salinity you want to have the tank at and cycle it there, or if you start at freshwater, don't raise the salinity more than .002 each week or it could kill the bacteria.

7. Lots of plants, whatever you think looks good. You can make caves or not, usually if you give them a few plants with broad leaves they will use those as "caves". Or you can buy some fake driftwood and they like to hide under that as well.

One thing to keep in mind, find out what kind of water (what salinity) they are in at the store, so you know what level to cycle your tank at. More than likely they are in freshwater, or freshwater with "a cup of salt". If they can't give you a specific salinity number, find out for sure, but they are likely using aquarium salt and not marine salt, so the fish really are not in brackish water.

[sophie]

Myaj thanks for the input I work in litres can you change it to them for me as i'm not to good at conversion myself?
Also is there any sort of plants that would suit my fish better than others.
I know what the fish shop keeps them in it is in fresh but as they are ordering them in for me so I will have to ask the shop to find out what there supplyer houses them in.
Also what pH is needed for my fish been taking notes but it is a bit mind boggling sometimes but as no plans to order fish yet have plenty of time to digest all avaiable information.

[nosepuff]

i'm pretty sure u multiply gallons by 4 to get the approximate amount in litres. so 25 gallons would be around 100 litres. do u already have a tank? u can usually get 28 tank kits for a good price, like at big al's or petsmart (but i don't like the topfin brand). i'm preparing my tank for f8's too, but it is still in the cycling process. if u live in the US, u really should look for biospira at some smaller fish stores. it's taking me more than 3 weeks so far. also, it might be easier if u try keeping fake plants too. otherwise, u could look into plants that can adapt to light brackish water. i'm not a plant person, so i don't really know. i think the pH they are best suited for is around 7.2, but just check the pufferpedia brackish section for the F8 profile. i think they prefer harder water, so i think u should get crushed coral instead of regular gravel. don't use chemicals for modifying the pH.

[spoot]

pH is not all that important as long as it is stable. The marine salt in the water (to make the water brackish) will raise the pH and help buffer it.

[sophie]

No I haven't got the tank yet as I'm gathering all the info I need for them will probably get my tank within the next month then how long will it usually take to cycle it is it the same as fresh as that is what I have presently.

[nosepuff]

I think it usually takes 2 to 4 weeks for the tank to cycle regardless of whether it is freshwater or brackish water. The f8's you get from the fish store will most likely be kept in freshwater, so start off your tank as a freshwater tank. After it's cycled and you've gotten your fish, gradually add marine salt when you do your water changes (premix the salt in a bucket of new water). Don't let your s.g. (specific gravity) in your tank get higher than 0.002 each week. If the f8's are kept in brackish water, then ask for their specific gravity and match that to your tank. If they say they use aquarium salt, then I think that is basically the same as freshwater. A salesperson told me that people typically use aquarium salt to make brackish tanks, but that is not good because what the fish need are the trace minerals obtained from marine salt (not aquarium salt).

[sophie]

The fish will be in fresh as I have already checked this unless they are ordered in and then will ask what the suppliers house them in.
Was sold aquarium salt to make up the brackish water then discovered I needed marine salt afterwards so got to get some of that.
So in truth I'll be looking at about 6-8 weeks till I get my fish as I have to get tank and set up first.
Thanks for your help will let you all know how I'm getting on with things when the time comes as I'm sure i will probably be asking for advise throughout the setting up proccess as you have experience of it all and I'm a novice!!

[CoreyK]

So in truth I'll be looking at about 6-8 weeks till I get my fish as I have to get tank and set up first.

Unless you can get a hold of some Bio-Spira, in which case you can get up and running within a couple of days.

[spoot]

You can cycle a tank pretty fast using pure ammonia too. There is an article in the library about it. http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/lib ... iltration/

[sophie]

Been told Bio-Spira can only be bought from the US and I'm in the UK heard about the Ammonia before where can I get it from and is there a particularly type that is best for Brackish.
The Bio-Spira is it a biological filter additive containing live bacteria as in UK we can get something called Stress Zyme does anyone know if this is similar.

[Boxermom]

Stress Zyme is useless and only contains dead bacteria. Biospira is the only thing that has the correct live bacteria needed.

[Pufferpunk]

Been told Bio-Spira can only be bought from the US and I'm in the UK

This is why I feel it's so important to fill out your profile. It would be really helpful to know where you all are living.

Forget about Stresszyme or any other similar product. They're all dead bacteria. You'll have to do the fishless cycling method, with ammonia.