Hi, I have three SAPs, which I've had for over a month now. I'm wondering, so I have some advanced warning, how it's possible to tell when they'll need their beaks trimming?
I've read http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/lib ... dentistry/ and understand that even with a daily supply of hard shelled food there's going to come a time when I have to trim them manually, so I want to be ready to spot the signs...so far none of them have teeth sticking out, but I just wondered how it's possible to tell?
When to don the dentist's hat?
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Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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coldmachineUK
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When to don the dentist's hat?
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Boxermom
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Re: When to don the dentist's hat?
Do it before their teeth start sticking out, when you can see them all of the time. Don't wait too long or they can not only overlap but also grow to the point where they (and you) can't open their jaws and it becomes impossible to cut their teeth at that point.
Tina
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
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Hilly
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Re: When to don the dentist's hat?
The more crunchy foods you can get into them the better. Dont know if it'll hold off the dentistry forever but it should certainly help.
Hilly
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coldmachineUK
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Re: When to don the dentist's hat?
Ok, quick update: I decided to go for it this afternoon and got everything together. Sterilised equipment ready to use, containers etc. all as the article on here recommends.
I decided to test on one of my puffers first, rather than risking all three. The good news is that he survived, although I have never held my breath for so long! Waiting for him to right himself and start swimming felt like an eternity...
There's no bad news (yet, I know that with anesthetic there's a risk he could fall ill later on), but I am concerned about a couple of things:
1. The SAP puffs are so tiny that it was nigh on impossible to even see his teeth let alone pull the lips back. They're all about 2" long at the moment so I know they're young, but still. How on Earth do you actually perform this sort of procedure on a puffer so small?! There's no way that my clippers would have worked on such a small area.
2. The instructions in the article I found really useful in parts, but really confusing in others. For example, there's great 'leaps' made in the process. For example the descriptions on dosage are great, but the instructions jump from "peel back the net, until the puffer’s head and teeth are exposed" to "quickly but carefully clip its teeth with cuticle nippers". There's no suggestions or detail on this last bit. It's like "whoosh, there you go, all cut nice and neat". Like I said, my puffs are so small that pulling back the lips was just impossible...it was only as he started to wake up that he opened his mouth enough for us to see the condition of the beak. And by then we were thinking "crikey, get him back in the recovery water before he wakes up fully!".
3. The other thing was that I felt like the pull of clippers on the teeth on a puff so small would be enough to cause permanent damage to the entire mouth of the fish. That is, the action of cutting would surely pull the beak out?
4. During recovery my puffer righted itself, then it seemed to go head down in the water and looked like he was trying to swim out of the bottom of the container or something. I see in the photo on the article that the puff in the top left might be doing the same: is this normal recovery behaviour?
I felt overall that even though things went ok - my puffer survived - and that the article was a lifesaver versus no information whatsoever on this procedure, that I was still lacking some really important information on how to do this. It was pretty terrifying...!
I decided to test on one of my puffers first, rather than risking all three. The good news is that he survived, although I have never held my breath for so long! Waiting for him to right himself and start swimming felt like an eternity...
There's no bad news (yet, I know that with anesthetic there's a risk he could fall ill later on), but I am concerned about a couple of things:
1. The SAP puffs are so tiny that it was nigh on impossible to even see his teeth let alone pull the lips back. They're all about 2" long at the moment so I know they're young, but still. How on Earth do you actually perform this sort of procedure on a puffer so small?! There's no way that my clippers would have worked on such a small area.
2. The instructions in the article I found really useful in parts, but really confusing in others. For example, there's great 'leaps' made in the process. For example the descriptions on dosage are great, but the instructions jump from "peel back the net, until the puffer’s head and teeth are exposed" to "quickly but carefully clip its teeth with cuticle nippers". There's no suggestions or detail on this last bit. It's like "whoosh, there you go, all cut nice and neat". Like I said, my puffs are so small that pulling back the lips was just impossible...it was only as he started to wake up that he opened his mouth enough for us to see the condition of the beak. And by then we were thinking "crikey, get him back in the recovery water before he wakes up fully!".
3. The other thing was that I felt like the pull of clippers on the teeth on a puff so small would be enough to cause permanent damage to the entire mouth of the fish. That is, the action of cutting would surely pull the beak out?
4. During recovery my puffer righted itself, then it seemed to go head down in the water and looked like he was trying to swim out of the bottom of the container or something. I see in the photo on the article that the puff in the top left might be doing the same: is this normal recovery behaviour?
I felt overall that even though things went ok - my puffer survived - and that the article was a lifesaver versus no information whatsoever on this procedure, that I was still lacking some really important information on how to do this. It was pretty terrifying...!
Did our staff successfully help you? The Puffer Forum is an incredible resource and is run completely on the donations of its viewers. Proceeds from the Puffer Forum store go towards future contests and keeping the site running. We also welcome donations!
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Interesting stock: S. mahnerti, S. vinciguerrae, S. sp. "crimson", V. maassi, N. masyai, M. guentheri, T. biocellatus, C. asellus.
36G: FW Planted | 53G: Brackish (F8 Puffers) | 58G: Freshwater Community (Unusual/Rare Loaches)
Interesting stock: S. mahnerti, S. vinciguerrae, S. sp. "crimson", V. maassi, N. masyai, M. guentheri, T. biocellatus, C. asellus.
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Nick
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Re: When to don the dentist's hat?
I'm pretty sure if you have trouble exposing the teeth at all, it's unlikely they are much overgrown. Well overgrown teeth are visible when the puffer is in rest position, and the beak itself will act as a guide to pulling back the lips.
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Myaj
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Re: When to don the dentist's hat?
I usually just put my finger on the top of their nose and slid the skin back a bit to see better, same with the chin. If you are using the proper cuticle nippers, it shouldn't be a problem at all (my one SAP never grew larger than 2", and I trimmed his teeth often, stunted little buggar). You do have to be careful not to clip their lips off!
Ramming their head into the bottom of the container seems to be a common wake-up behavior. Mine always did that for a while.
Ramming their head into the bottom of the container seems to be a common wake-up behavior. Mine always did that for a while.
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coldmachineUK
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Re: When to don the dentist's hat?
Thanks for the replies!
I think like Nick says I'm better leaving it a while longer before trying this again. I just went on previous advise saying "the sooner the better". I guess I'll wait for visible overgrowth before doing anything.
The relief is that I know the procedure shouldn't kill the little things. I've only ever used clove oil to put very sick fish to sleep (I had a molly with serious defects which exhibited only after I'd had it a few months, and then it ended up with a serious bout of dropsy), so I was really worried about getting the dosing right. The article was GREAT on that front! True lifesaver
I wanted to avoid touching the puff in case I damaged it. The poor little thing gasped at one point, poking his teeth out, and that's when we panicked! He definitely had an adventure....although I think I'm forgiven since he's begging for food
Glad to know the wake up behaviour is normal...phew!
I think like Nick says I'm better leaving it a while longer before trying this again. I just went on previous advise saying "the sooner the better". I guess I'll wait for visible overgrowth before doing anything.
The relief is that I know the procedure shouldn't kill the little things. I've only ever used clove oil to put very sick fish to sleep (I had a molly with serious defects which exhibited only after I'd had it a few months, and then it ended up with a serious bout of dropsy), so I was really worried about getting the dosing right. The article was GREAT on that front! True lifesaver
I wanted to avoid touching the puff in case I damaged it. The poor little thing gasped at one point, poking his teeth out, and that's when we panicked! He definitely had an adventure....although I think I'm forgiven since he's begging for food
Glad to know the wake up behaviour is normal...phew!
Did our staff successfully help you? The Puffer Forum is an incredible resource and is run completely on the donations of its viewers. Proceeds from the Puffer Forum store go towards future contests and keeping the site running. We also welcome donations!
36G: FW Planted | 53G: Brackish (F8 Puffers) | 58G: Freshwater Community (Unusual/Rare Loaches)
Interesting stock: S. mahnerti, S. vinciguerrae, S. sp. "crimson", V. maassi, N. masyai, M. guentheri, T. biocellatus, C. asellus.
36G: FW Planted | 53G: Brackish (F8 Puffers) | 58G: Freshwater Community (Unusual/Rare Loaches)
Interesting stock: S. mahnerti, S. vinciguerrae, S. sp. "crimson", V. maassi, N. masyai, M. guentheri, T. biocellatus, C. asellus.
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Boxermom
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Re: When to don the dentist's hat?
Just to clarify, I didn't say "the sooner the better," I said don't wait too long. :p
Tina
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1