Newbie to brackish and puffers...

[Toothless]

Greetings and salutations!

I've been keeping freshwater fish for 10+ years now. Through the years, I've kept/keep goldfish (fancy and common/comets), fancy guppies, sailfin mollies, tetras, fancy plecos, corydoras, loaches, bettas and a few others. I also keep turtles, lizards and apple snails. Anyway, I've become an expert in all aspects of freshwater fish keeping including microscopic parasite identification and eradication. Parasites are my forte.

I've just acquired two, seemingly healthy, F8 puffers (I couldn't resist them ). I prepared a 20 gallon long for them with UGF filter driven by airstones. I also built a 2 stage filter (mechanical and bio) that is run by a powerhead which also pushes the returning water through a UV sterilizer. The tank is heavily "planted" with silk plants and features a few little caves here and there.

After researching extensively, it seems F8's do better in brackish systems than fresh. I've read conflicting advice but the brackish school seems to have been more reputable of the two, Including here at TPF. So, I'll be raising the salinity starting Monday when I get some marine salt.

Today, I started a 1.5 gallon receptacle for breeding the two types of pond snails I have in my ponds.

OK, on to my questions:


I've noticed that my two puffers will often face each other and slowly sink to the bottom where one of them will shake its entire body. It's more of a vibrating than shaking though. It last for about a minute before one of them just swims away at a normal pace. Are they establishing dominance or could this be the precursor to breeding behavior?

I've noticed that both of them will sometimes flash against a plant or the glass. I've also noticed that it seems to happen for a while after they eat and/or are pooping. Could their poo be bothering or tickling their pelvic fin and they're flashing to break the poo off? Or is this more indicative of parasites?

Right now, I am using very small grade gravel. Would it be better to use argonite?

If I wanted to go sand bottom, are there any tips or techniques for running a UGF with it?

Would a mudskipper do well with F8's?


I guess that's all for now. I'm sure I'll have some more questions soon enough.......

Thanks for any replies I might receive!

Paul

[ToyotaRKeener]

I've noticed that my two puffers will often face each other and slowly sink to the bottom where one of them will shake its entire body. It's more of a vibrating than shaking though. It last for about a minute before one of them just swims away at a normal pace. Are they establishing dominance or could this be the precursor to breeding behavior?

I've noticed that both of them will sometimes flash against a plant or the glass. I've also noticed that it seems to happen for a while after they eat and/or are pooping. Could their poo be bothering or tickling their pelvic fin and they're flashing to break the poo off? Or is this more indicative of parasites?

Right now, I am using very small grade gravel. Would it be better to use argonite?

If I wanted to go sand bottom, are there any tips or techniques for running a UGF with it?

Would a mudskipper do well with F8's?

Paul

As far as substrate goes, on my brackish tank I use Calcium Carbonate(calcite). You can use your gravel though, especially if you are planning on keeping the UGF because as far as I know, you cannot use sand or crushed coral with it.

I have never seen a mudskipper kept with puffers before. My guess is that the puffer would pick on it. Also, the mudskipper requires a different setup than the puffer, meaning 'muddy' beach with mangroves.

[Pufferpunk]

Since there are no records of F8s sucessfully spawning in captivity, My guess would be territorial "dance".

It is recommended to use crush coral or aragonite as substrate, to maintain a steady pH of around 8. Personally, I don't like UGF, unless you are using it as reverse-flow. Neither seems very pracical with either of those substrates.

[Fella]

http://www.tropicalfishkeeper.com/content/view/59/48/

It can be done, I did it for a while, but you need a paludarium/terrarium style setup.

[Pufferpunk]

Toothless , I sent you a PM.

[Hilly]

I saw Fellas tank when it was set up with the F8 and mudskippers and I cant remember what else. It looked great.

[Myaj]

You don't "have" to change out the substrate but you can if you want. The salt in the water will help buffer it, but aragonite or crushed coral will also help with that.

I would not use a UG filter, unless it was on reverse flow, and if you use one, you certianly can not use sand.

Mudskippers as said have pretty specific requirements. Also, your tank is *just* large enough for the puffers, you won't have room for anything else added.

[Toothless]

Thanks for the input guys!

Yeah, UGF's aren't really all that. I was planning on phasing it out. The tank was newly set-up and instantly cycled by media from other tanks. The UGF was really just extra insurance to me that the bio-filter was up and oxidizing at full steam.


I was inquiring about mudskippers because I've read about a few who have tried and reported success in keeping mudskippers with F8's. Housing them properly isn't going to be a problem since I have a myriad of tanks to choose from in storage, including a 75 gallon which I suspect would be a great place for a my two F8's and possibly two mudskippers. Since the 75 has a bulkhead fitting on the back panel, I could plumb the intake from within a couple of (well calculated) inches of the surface height, straight to the wet/dry, through the 18watt UV and back into the tank via spraybar. I figure I could use a simple powerhead/sponge filter to take care of most of the particulates that the shallow intake to the wet/dry can't get at.

Does the above sound like it could work? What could I do to improve it? Aside from furnishing it, that is.

Hmmm, I gotta go research some live plants that can handle brackish systems....

Thanks again

[my name is mike]

someone else correct me if im wrong , but 2 figure 8s in a 20 gal is pushing it right?

or, is it ok because it is a 20 long?

[Myaj]

It is pushing it a bit, but its not so bad. Of course it will all depend on feeding habits, water change schedules and the puffers' individual personalities.

[Toothless]

Mike,
Rest assured, I am a waterchange FREAK. I go through so much Prime that I really should consider buying stocks in Seachem . Anyway, I don't plan on keeping them in the 20 long for the rest of their lives. I'm already inquiring (above) about setting up a rather large tank for them. But, Since they are only just now beginning to be acclimated to brackish levels, I would like to establish a good colony of brackish nitrifying bacteria in this smaller system before opening up the proverbial can of worms that a new (large) tank invariably is..... Everything in due time and moderation.....


Myaj,
Yes! I totally see their personalities more and more each day! They're sooo funny! Both already eat right from my fingers and are waiting at the surface before I can even drop the first bits in. I especially like to see how they swing around to the front of snails and get juuuuuust the right angle/orientation before striking. It's also neat how they spit jets of water in different ways. I drop a clump of bloodworms on a partially submerged, floating leaf and they spit jets of water to dislodge worms so they can get at them. Cute little buggers, I can't wait for them to get to full size....

You know, out of all the different aquatic animals I keep (700 gals worth ), the F8's are quickly becoming my favorite part of my hectic feeding schedule. A lot of kids in my neighborhood love to come over and check out/feed my animals in the ponds and fish room but they all especially love the new F8's, which is good because the turtles and frogs could certainly use the much needed break!

[my name is mike]

sounds like a couple of characters! -- love to see pictures some time

[Toothless]

*sighs*

My camera went on the fritz a while back. The pentax zoom lens froze-up and I haven't been able to finagle it to move again. Soooo, it could be a while before I can get pics up. But F8's all look pretty much the same anyway. Once I get the 75 set-up and running, I'll borrow someones camera and snap a few shots for posting here. I've been working on a couple ideas for furnishing it that I think will be great! Pretty much all I need to get it up and running is some minor plumbing and a new 18 watt bulb for one of my UV sterilizers. But, I have to get a good colony of brackish nitrosomonas/nitrobacters established before I forge ahead.......

[Pufferpunk]

You might want to look into buying the large, pool-sized Prime. It makes 2x the amount you buy, when diluted 50/50 with RO water.

[Toothless]

Thats a good idea! Seachem doesn't even mention, anywhere on their site, that Prime has a concentrated blend. Even for their 20 liter size. Is the Prime you mentioned made by Seachem or is it another company with the same name product? Do you know of any good online sources? I usually shop at BigAlsOnline but I don't think they carry the concentrate you mentioned......

Also, when I make stock solutions of potassium permanganate, I use distilled water as per Dr. Eric Johnsons suggestions. Could I use distilled water instead of R/O water to dilute this concentrated Prime. I don't utilize an R/O unit because my tapwater contains a rather good chemistry of KH, GH and pH.

Thanks!