Hi all,
Just a note because last weekend bought 3 SAPs to go in 20gal. tank that has been cycled for.. ever.
Just happened to find these fellas and, having never seen SAPs for sale here, and there being 6 in the tank, 3 of which were rolling around unresponsive on the floor of the tank, brought them home.
All three lovely really active and eating well.. until today. Walked in from work to find two happy, healthy puffs and one stuck to the filter. Have immediately quarantined her, but found that the Nitrate levels are sky high for no apparent reason. Tank had water change last weekend when the puffs came in. They are only around half an inch each.
There is a large Plec in the tank, who site under his log&I know that they are big producers, but this isn't a change, he's been living in there for about 3 years now.
pH= 8
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: OFF THE SCALE high.. darker than 100.
We have carried out almost complete waterchange and the poorly one is still in quarantine in clean water, but all three are very very skinny too. Parasites?
No damage on him from the filter, but he's all roley-poley still..
does anyone have any other suggestions of what i can do?
Sickly SAP
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
-
OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
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RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
Re: Sickly SAP
I would treat them all for IPs.
What kind of pleco is it? Most get too large for that size tank. A 20 gallon isn't enough room for three puffers and 1 pleco. That's just way too much waste as they're all messy fish.
Are you using an undergravel filter? What were your readings right before you added the puffers? Do you overfeed?
It may be possible the plec attacked over night, I had a plec that killed 10 cories before I realized the culprit. Change the water doing several small changes so as to not shock the fish. After you get those nitrates down we need to figure out the source and then figure out what's going on with the puffers.
*Edit- I just read you did a large waterchange. Hopefully that wasn't too much shock for the fish. What are your readings now? Do you have any artificial decorations? If so it is possible some food is stuck inside and is rotting creating these nitrates.
What kind of pleco is it? Most get too large for that size tank. A 20 gallon isn't enough room for three puffers and 1 pleco. That's just way too much waste as they're all messy fish.
Are you using an undergravel filter? What were your readings right before you added the puffers? Do you overfeed?
It may be possible the plec attacked over night, I had a plec that killed 10 cories before I realized the culprit. Change the water doing several small changes so as to not shock the fish. After you get those nitrates down we need to figure out the source and then figure out what's going on with the puffers.
*Edit- I just read you did a large waterchange. Hopefully that wasn't too much shock for the fish. What are your readings now? Do you have any artificial decorations? If so it is possible some food is stuck inside and is rotting creating these nitrates.
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
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Myaj
- Tech Team
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- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:27 pm
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- My Puffers: Bubba, turgidus
Paris, lined burrfish - Location: SE Wisconsin
- Contact:
Re: Sickly SAP
You are definately going to need to do water changes, preferably on a daily basis for the next few days. Its the only way to get nitrates down. But yes, do a series of small ones, it will be easier on the fish than one big one.
Is it a common pleco species? If so, that pleco by itself shouldnt' even be in a 20 gallon tank. They can get over a foot long and are huge waste producers. Not to mention the SAP's need 10-15 gallons each.
The SAP's may have gone around slaughtering snails and leaving the bodies to rot too.. but definately make sure you are not overfeeding. In fact, I wouldn't feed for a few days until you can get those levels back under control and start looking for a new home/larger tank, especially for that pleco.
Internal parasites could definatley contribute to a puffer dying, but in this case it was almost certianly high nitrates. Puffers simply can not handle them. Mine always showed signs of stress if they got to the 20-30 range, I can't even imagine a puffer trying to survive in 100+.
Is it a common pleco species? If so, that pleco by itself shouldnt' even be in a 20 gallon tank. They can get over a foot long and are huge waste producers. Not to mention the SAP's need 10-15 gallons each.
The SAP's may have gone around slaughtering snails and leaving the bodies to rot too.. but definately make sure you are not overfeeding. In fact, I wouldn't feed for a few days until you can get those levels back under control and start looking for a new home/larger tank, especially for that pleco.
Internal parasites could definatley contribute to a puffer dying, but in this case it was almost certianly high nitrates. Puffers simply can not handle them. Mine always showed signs of stress if they got to the 20-30 range, I can't even imagine a puffer trying to survive in 100+.
