So Ive been cycling my tank for the past 3-4 weeks now and still have a couple more weeks to go. But I have been researching almost two months now a fuffer to stick in this 20 gallon. And I keep coming back to F8s. Even though I wanted to do a freshwater puffer ... I just think if I really want a puffer I should just get exactly what I want. F8s are one of the few puffers I have seen at fish stores that I was able to interact with and were just so personable and active I loved it.
now I want to get a F8..... only thing is since this tank is cycling freshwater how do I get it brackish? Steps on how to do this would be awesome and websites and links to setting up brackish or F8s is welcome!
Thank's y'all!
I think I want a F8
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VanillaShake311
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Nick
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The F8 will come in FW anyway, so just add him to the FW tank and slowly increase the SG with your weekly water changes. Just don't go over .002 a week.
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VanillaShake311
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Myaj
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Double check with your store as to if the fish is in brackish or fresh there. Some good stores do have them in real brackish water, but most won't.
Good job on fishless cycling! What are your readings at right now?
Ask for the actual salinity level. If they just tell you a cup of salt, or 2 teaspoons of aquarium salt per gallon, that is NOT brackish water (wrong kind of salt), and the fish is basically in freshwater. That is easy, once you get the fish you can slowly raise the salinity so the fish and tank get used to it at the same time.
If they tell you something like 1.008, then yes, that is brackish water. If that is the case, you should probably start adding a little marine salt to your tank, but since its still cycling you have to take it slow. I would start adding some salt now, but really, don't worry about it too much, the fish can adapt to slightly different salinities much better than bacteria can.
Basically, either route you choose, you will need a hydrometer (cheap, but can be inaccurate) or a refractometer ($25 or so but very accurate and easy to use), to measure the salinity level and some marine salt (Instant Ocean for example, NOT "aquarium salt").
Then you have two ways of doing it, the slow way, or the slightly faster, but more "technical" way.
The slow way, just add a little more salt with each water change. Lets say every week you do a 50% water change. The first week, add one Tablespoon of marine mix to the replacement water. The second week add 2 Tablespoons of marine mix to the replacement water, the third week, add 3 Tablespoons, and so on. This will raise it very slowly, over a long period of time. Of course, you'll still need to measure the levels with a hydrometer so you know how high you are getting. The difference of a Tablespoon of water should not be enough to push your salinity too high, too fast, unless your tank is way too small. If your tank is at least 10 gallons, and you do 5 gallon water changes weekly, you should be safe. I just did a test.. mixed one Tablespoon of Instant Ocean in a gallon of water, and the salinity was 1.003. So one tablespoon per gallon will only raise .003, considering that .002 per week is the safe level to raise the salinity each week, if you mixed that one Tablespoon into 5 gallons, you will be well under that rate. *disclaimer* mind you, everyone's measurement will be slightly different, due to humidity levels in the salt, the way you fill the measuring device, etc. So make sure you measure YOUR levels with a hydrometer or refractometer and don't go by what worked for me, or what the box suggests. However, one Tablespoon per gallon increase each week should not hurt any tank that is at least 10 gallons. While its not recommended to avoid buying the salinity testing equipment, if you simply can not afford it or find someone to test your water for you, this is the most safe route.
The faster, but more "technical" method, is to raise the salinity .002 each week. Any more than this will kill the bacteria, so its a bit more tricky, you MUST not excede those levels. Basically you need to do a little math.. if your tank is 1.000 (freshwater), you want to raise it to 1.002 your first week. So, you have to figure out how much water to change, and what salinity the new water has to be in order to raise it to where you need it to be. The easiest way is to do 50% water changes each week, with the replacement water being a salinity that is 2x your goal (for the week, not your end goal), minus the current salinity (salt that is already in the water).
(goal salinity of your tank for the week) x 2 - (current salinity, with the 1 before the decimal point ignored for the moment) = (salinity to mix up replacement water) *this only works if you are doing 50% water changes*
Make sense? So if your tank is at 1.000, and you want to raise it to 1.002, you drain 50% of the water, and mix up the replacement water at 1.004 (so 1.002 x .002 = 1.004, 1.004 - .000(current salinity) = 1.004). This should bring the tank to your goal for the week, 1.002. The next week, you are starting at 1.002 and want to raise it to 1.004. Do your math, 1.004 (goal) x 2 = 1.008 - .002 (current salinity) = 1.006. So you do a 50% water change, with the replacement water at 1.006, and your end water will be 1.004. Yes, you will need to be accurate and measure with a device. This method only works for 50% changes, if you do other size water changes I'm leaving it up to you to do your own calculations
.
Can someone check my math? I think I did that right?
Okay, so after you decide on a way to mix up the replacement water, there's just a few more things to point out.
Never add the salt directly to the tank, premix it in your replacement water. Most of us prefer to mix our salt and water at least 24 hours ahead of time with a powerhead or airstone in the container, to give it plenty of time to dissolve. Instant Ocean claims this is not necessary, and you can use it immediately after mixing, so its a personal choice and in an emergency, I would not hesitate to do an immediate water change with Instant Ocean.
And the other thing to keep in mind, when a brackish or salt water tank evaporates, the salt does not. So you must make sure you "top off" your tank with freshwater back to the original level, or salt levels will start to rise.
I really hope that helps, I didn't intend to write a book when I started, but I'm actually glad I did. If the math I stated is correct (I'm 99% sure it is, but would hate to tell you the wrong thing), I'm going to work this up as an article so its easier to find the info.
Good job on fishless cycling! What are your readings at right now?
Ask for the actual salinity level. If they just tell you a cup of salt, or 2 teaspoons of aquarium salt per gallon, that is NOT brackish water (wrong kind of salt), and the fish is basically in freshwater. That is easy, once you get the fish you can slowly raise the salinity so the fish and tank get used to it at the same time.
If they tell you something like 1.008, then yes, that is brackish water. If that is the case, you should probably start adding a little marine salt to your tank, but since its still cycling you have to take it slow. I would start adding some salt now, but really, don't worry about it too much, the fish can adapt to slightly different salinities much better than bacteria can.
Basically, either route you choose, you will need a hydrometer (cheap, but can be inaccurate) or a refractometer ($25 or so but very accurate and easy to use), to measure the salinity level and some marine salt (Instant Ocean for example, NOT "aquarium salt").
Then you have two ways of doing it, the slow way, or the slightly faster, but more "technical" way.
The slow way, just add a little more salt with each water change. Lets say every week you do a 50% water change. The first week, add one Tablespoon of marine mix to the replacement water. The second week add 2 Tablespoons of marine mix to the replacement water, the third week, add 3 Tablespoons, and so on. This will raise it very slowly, over a long period of time. Of course, you'll still need to measure the levels with a hydrometer so you know how high you are getting. The difference of a Tablespoon of water should not be enough to push your salinity too high, too fast, unless your tank is way too small. If your tank is at least 10 gallons, and you do 5 gallon water changes weekly, you should be safe. I just did a test.. mixed one Tablespoon of Instant Ocean in a gallon of water, and the salinity was 1.003. So one tablespoon per gallon will only raise .003, considering that .002 per week is the safe level to raise the salinity each week, if you mixed that one Tablespoon into 5 gallons, you will be well under that rate. *disclaimer* mind you, everyone's measurement will be slightly different, due to humidity levels in the salt, the way you fill the measuring device, etc. So make sure you measure YOUR levels with a hydrometer or refractometer and don't go by what worked for me, or what the box suggests. However, one Tablespoon per gallon increase each week should not hurt any tank that is at least 10 gallons. While its not recommended to avoid buying the salinity testing equipment, if you simply can not afford it or find someone to test your water for you, this is the most safe route.
The faster, but more "technical" method, is to raise the salinity .002 each week. Any more than this will kill the bacteria, so its a bit more tricky, you MUST not excede those levels. Basically you need to do a little math.. if your tank is 1.000 (freshwater), you want to raise it to 1.002 your first week. So, you have to figure out how much water to change, and what salinity the new water has to be in order to raise it to where you need it to be. The easiest way is to do 50% water changes each week, with the replacement water being a salinity that is 2x your goal (for the week, not your end goal), minus the current salinity (salt that is already in the water).
(goal salinity of your tank for the week) x 2 - (current salinity, with the 1 before the decimal point ignored for the moment) = (salinity to mix up replacement water) *this only works if you are doing 50% water changes*
Make sense? So if your tank is at 1.000, and you want to raise it to 1.002, you drain 50% of the water, and mix up the replacement water at 1.004 (so 1.002 x .002 = 1.004, 1.004 - .000(current salinity) = 1.004). This should bring the tank to your goal for the week, 1.002. The next week, you are starting at 1.002 and want to raise it to 1.004. Do your math, 1.004 (goal) x 2 = 1.008 - .002 (current salinity) = 1.006. So you do a 50% water change, with the replacement water at 1.006, and your end water will be 1.004. Yes, you will need to be accurate and measure with a device. This method only works for 50% changes, if you do other size water changes I'm leaving it up to you to do your own calculations
.Can someone check my math? I think I did that right?
Okay, so after you decide on a way to mix up the replacement water, there's just a few more things to point out.
Never add the salt directly to the tank, premix it in your replacement water. Most of us prefer to mix our salt and water at least 24 hours ahead of time with a powerhead or airstone in the container, to give it plenty of time to dissolve. Instant Ocean claims this is not necessary, and you can use it immediately after mixing, so its a personal choice and in an emergency, I would not hesitate to do an immediate water change with Instant Ocean.
And the other thing to keep in mind, when a brackish or salt water tank evaporates, the salt does not. So you must make sure you "top off" your tank with freshwater back to the original level, or salt levels will start to rise.
I really hope that helps, I didn't intend to write a book when I started, but I'm actually glad I did. If the math I stated is correct (I'm 99% sure it is, but would hate to tell you the wrong thing), I'm going to work this up as an article so its easier to find the info.
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VanillaShake311
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Wow! Myaj that was really informative thank you! I will call up to the LFS that I will be buying from and ask them if they keep them in fresh or brackish water. Then decide whether or not to add salt now or when I get the fish.
So maintaining that salinity after it is said and done.... you say that the salt does not evaporate...... so just keep an eye on the salinity and adjust as needed after I have reached my level of salinity?
So maintaining that salinity after it is said and done.... you say that the salt does not evaporate...... so just keep an eye on the salinity and adjust as needed after I have reached my level of salinity?
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Myaj
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Basically, once you are at the target salinity, you top off for evaporation with freshwater and mix up your new water for water changes at that same level. 1.008 water mixed in 1.008 water gives you 1.008 water
Last edited by Myaj on Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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VanillaShake311
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Myaj
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Paris, lined burrfish - Location: SE Wisconsin
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Lookin good!
What is the temperature of your tank? I know raising it up some can speed up the process, but I can't remember off the top of my head what the highest you can go before frying the bacteria is.
Of course, that's if there are no fish currently in the tank and you have to lower it back down to normal levels before adding any.
What is the temperature of your tank? I know raising it up some can speed up the process, but I can't remember off the top of my head what the highest you can go before frying the bacteria is.
Of course, that's if there are no fish currently in the tank and you have to lower it back down to normal levels before adding any.
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VanillaShake311
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Well I put my two breeder gold mystery snails to help cycle the tank in there..... The tank is currently 80 F.
Oh yesterday I put some filter media in there I had shoved in some of my penguin filters on other tanks for over two weeks and put it in the 20 gallon to speed things up a bit. I am currently building some caves out of rocks and silicone for the little guy.
I called up at the LFS and they said that they keep them in freshwater and told me pretty much what you did that start with fresh in the tank and slowly ease them into brackish... so nice to hear from fish store employees that they know their stuff.
Also..... another question.... its no big deal... but out of curiousity do F8s do well with other species of brackish water fish? I mean incase later on I want to upgrade the tank to a 30 gallon for the little guy.
Oh yesterday I put some filter media in there I had shoved in some of my penguin filters on other tanks for over two weeks and put it in the 20 gallon to speed things up a bit. I am currently building some caves out of rocks and silicone for the little guy.
I called up at the LFS and they said that they keep them in freshwater and told me pretty much what you did that start with fresh in the tank and slowly ease them into brackish... so nice to hear from fish store employees that they know their stuff.
Also..... another question.... its no big deal... but out of curiousity do F8s do well with other species of brackish water fish? I mean incase later on I want to upgrade the tank to a 30 gallon for the little guy.
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Nick
- Former Staff Member
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- My Puffers: Mine:
GSPs - Shakespeare and Jillybean
F8 - Velvet
My fiance:
DP - Emma Goldman
Narrow Lined Puffer - Ulrike - Location (country): Northeastern USA
- Location: Middletown, CT
- Contact:
They seem to do alright with bumble bee gobies, from what I have heard. My gf and I are going to try a few with her f8's if we can ever find any.
No matter how magnificent your successes or devastating your failures, the worlds' approximately 5 billion impoverished people could not possibly care less.
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VanillaShake311
- Dwarf Puffer
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my name is mike
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i have had success keeping Bee gobies, but have heard some fig 8's eventually decide they are food -- sounds like it depends on the puffer -- but worth a try in my opinion BBGs have great personalities -- BBGs and fig 8s together is like a personality explosion -- i cant help but laugh at my tank sometimes
Mike