36G: 5x colomesus asellus?

[coldmachineUK]

Hi, I need some fairly quick-ish advice on this one.

Tank size: 36G, tall rather than long.
Current stock: 2x Synodontis Petricola, 1x LDA08 plec.
These will be kept in the tank.

Planned additions: 5x colomesus asellus, 1x LDA08 plec (for a pair).

Is this "well considered", or a bad idea, in terms of:
a) size
b) the syno and plec as tankmates?

In terms of tank size, if a group of 5 is a bad idea, is a group of 3 an alternative?

Not new to puffers, but new to FW puffers and to ascellus.
My synos hang about on the bottom layer of the tank, the plec roams along the back glass and periodically the front. He's more shy than the petricola but roams across all levels on the glass.

Tank is planted, but will be planted up a little more. Three pieces of lava rock and a cave will remain on the bottom layer for the synos (this is where they live currently).

I know they say: "if you have to ask the answer is probably no" but still...I have to ask

[Nick]

So thats two 5" fish, and a 3" pleco already, maybe you could add one Asellus. Also, puffers with any fish that has fins is a risk, if they decide to shred, they will shred.

[coldmachineUK]

I thought asellus were a group/social puffer? Wouldn't adding one be worse than adding none?

[Nick]

Possibly, but you don't have the tank space for two. If you take everything else out, and do just them, you can do 3. You need 15 gallons for the first puffer, and ten per additional puffer.

[coldmachineUK]

Well the tank is 36. So thats 15+10+10 = 35. So, that's a group of 3 surely? It is swimming space, right? The synos are bottom dwellers. The plec too, though it's around and about on the glass.

Tank is filtered by external canister, forgot to add that.

[coldmachineUK]

Does this hypothesis suggested by Neale hold any merit?

[Nick]

Being bottom dwellers is irrelevant to the crowding level of the tank, the size recommendations are mostly on puffer bioload and activity level, not where they swim most of the time. That suggestion potentially has merit, but my understand is a 36 is a 30" tank almost always, and therefor, offers little swimming distance, and thus can provide for fewer puffers than would a 33xlong, which is 48". My advice, if you have GOOD filtration, is to take everything but the pleco out, and get 3, and put the filter on the side of the tank, to create a current for them to swim against, they do love that, and I think that stocking level is the best balance of bioload and community behavior benefits.

[coldmachineUK]

Bioload isn't a huge concern for me based on my pwc regime. I currently do 40-50% pwcs on all of my tanks, primarily b/c it links in with my EI dosing and organic CO2 dosing, plus I like to keep my tanks clean looking! I can up this to twice weekly for the SAPs if necessary.

The tank is also 'over' filtered with a canister, so that will help too on that front. It also provides a very strong current since the tank is on the smaller side.

So, bioload and territoriality (is that a word?!) aside as perhaps moot points, swimming space is the main concern I guess. I agree with you that a group of 5 would be too large with this in mind. You're right that the tank is 30" in length.

Here's my plan then: since there's Neale's report on how this has worked out for him, I can only add to the 'experiment' and see if it works. I'll get a group of 3 and keep the synos and plec in there from the start. Tank will be rearranged to provide optimum swimming space whilst preserving nooks and crannies for the synos to keep them busy and away from puffer friends.

Then, if there are problems I can move the synos and plec out to other tanks. So, it shouldn't be a disaster I'd be looking at, just an inconvenience at moving fish I want to keep in there.

I think I will post updates in this thread to let everyone know how it goes. Then at least I'll be adding to future SAP info I guess.

[Hilly]

Looking forward to seeing this, it will be nice to see some SAP's swimming in a group.

[Nick]

Sounds good, keep us updated.

[coldmachineUK]

Ok, here's an update!
I got three SAPs in the end, arrived yesterday and acclimatised well.
Here's some relevant notes so far:

Day One:

* Initially the synos (petricola) and SAPs were frightened of each other. One of the SAPs in particular was pretty skittish every time it caught a glimpse of those long whiskers. They soon seemed to settle down though.

* The current, which I have quite high (it's a small-ish tank but has an external Tetratec EX700 canister on, so it generates a fair whack of current from the outlet), actually seemed to be causing them problems. They were listing as they swam. I thought I'd give them time to get used to it, and if they continued to swim in this way I'd lower the current. It was definitely the current because when they were out of its range (down the bottom levels of the tank) they were swimming normally.

* No evidence of group schooling: one busied itself exploring the left side, another the right side, and the third was 'go between' wandering between either end.


Day Two:

* No longer frightened of other tankmates. The SAPs are happily exploring and seem uninterested in the other occupants. Petricola are leaving them alone.

* Current no longer seems to be bothering them. Swimming fine. Far faster at moving than my F8s, and much more 'manic' on the whole!

* Still no evidence of group schooling. I observe that it seems to be more of a reassurance factor. The SAPs aren't swimming together, but they do 'regroup' periodically as if to make sure everyone's still accounted for. I get the impression this is what is meant by 'social' behaviour. I was expecting more of a loose schooling pattern, but this isn't evident (yet?).

* They DO appear to be very interested in tank decor. Could be initial exploration as they get used to the new tank, but reports from others suggested they would ignore nooks and crannies, and generally swim about the open water column. Mine don't appear to be doing that. They LOVE weaving through the plants, especially the floating amazon frogbit tendrils which they continually scour (on the search for food no doubt!).

It's early days yet, but these are the things I've noticed so far!

[Pufferpunk]

Cool, thanks for the update. You could keep this up & write an article about their behaviour.

[Nick]

I think you'd need a very large tank for them to "move as a group", a 35 gallon, even with decorations, is small enough that they will constantly glimpse each other while swimming about. I also doubt they move at all like traditional "chasing" schoolers, like danios, tetras, or rasboras. Definitely keep us updated, especially on their social behaviors and tolerance of tank mates.

[Myaj]

Definately keep us updated. I had two and they showed the same behavior as yours, not schooling together but always checking up on each other. I'd guess a group of 6 or more might "school" more, but you'd need a big tank for that! A long tank too, my single SAP (after the other died) used the entire length of my 4 ft 33xl tank, always active, always exploring. And he was a stunted little guy. I can imagine a healthy, big SAP would enjoy a lot more swimming room.

The Shedd aquarium in Chicago had a tank of mainly petricolia with a few very large SAP's added in, everything seemed to get along fine but it was a much larger tank than the home aquarium and I'm sure their filtration and water change schedules make ours look flimsy.

[CoreyK]

The social behavior you're describing sounds similar to my Figure 8's, they explore by themeselves but will frequently get together and hang out. Kinda 50/50.