I have had three Figure Eights for about two weeks now, and they all seem to be sick. At first, I noticed their fins were starting to look ragged, I suspected nipping and started setting up another tank to separate them. However, the fish started developing white patches (not ich-like) on their bodies and their fins got worse. One puffer got very weak and could not swim, and it eventually died. I have been treating the tank with Quick Cure (formalin - at half dose as they are scaleless) and Melafix (full dose). What does it seem like the puffers are sick with? Is Quick Cure good for curing puffers? What dose should I give them? What other measures could I take?
The water is brackish (1.01), could the juvenile Figure Eights be wanting fresher water? Also, their eyes look slightly cloudy and their color is pale. Please help these puffers by giving me some advice - Thank you!
Sick Figure Eights
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
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RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
*MOD EDIT- Post moved to the Hospital Forum
Yikes. I would NOT dose any tank with a formalin/malachite green combo... this stuff is very toxic and I would only use it in a dip. Not only that but it will kill any beneficial bacteria in the tank, and make it hard for your fish to breathe if no additional aeration is added. That said, it sounds more like a bacterial/fungal infection so I would add pimafix & melafix to the tank.
Ich will look like more like small grains of salt than patches. A fungus will look like a white cottony growth. Fin rot (ragged fins) should also be treated with Pimafix.
I would do water changes immediately to dilute the formalin/malachite green cocktail you have in there killing off all of your beneficial bacteria. With no real way of measuring the levels in your tank, you are probably adding to the problem as your puffers are very sensitive to these medications. Also, malachite green's toxicity is dependent on tank temperature, pH, and lighting, absorbs quickly into decor & plastics... Really not a good thing to add to a tank without paying very close attention to your parameters.
Has the tank been cycled?
Please post the params (pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temp, tank size, etc).
Next time I would go with a much less drastic measure, especially since puffers are so sensitive to medications (scaleless). It is very possible over-crowding and poor water conditions made them stressed & vulnerable, causing this outbreak.
Yikes. I would NOT dose any tank with a formalin/malachite green combo... this stuff is very toxic and I would only use it in a dip. Not only that but it will kill any beneficial bacteria in the tank, and make it hard for your fish to breathe if no additional aeration is added. That said, it sounds more like a bacterial/fungal infection so I would add pimafix & melafix to the tank.
Ich will look like more like small grains of salt than patches. A fungus will look like a white cottony growth. Fin rot (ragged fins) should also be treated with Pimafix.
I would do water changes immediately to dilute the formalin/malachite green cocktail you have in there killing off all of your beneficial bacteria. With no real way of measuring the levels in your tank, you are probably adding to the problem as your puffers are very sensitive to these medications. Also, malachite green's toxicity is dependent on tank temperature, pH, and lighting, absorbs quickly into decor & plastics... Really not a good thing to add to a tank without paying very close attention to your parameters.
Has the tank been cycled?
Please post the params (pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temp, tank size, etc).
Next time I would go with a much less drastic measure, especially since puffers are so sensitive to medications (scaleless). It is very possible over-crowding and poor water conditions made them stressed & vulnerable, causing this outbreak.
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
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Pufferpunk
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burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
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I'd start doing 80% water changes 2x/day/ That tank is only large enough for 1 F8. There is no way for that tank to cycle with that many puffers in there. You will always have problems with ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/pH. 3 F8s require 35g.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
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T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
You have to keep the ammonia/nitrites at 0 all the time (extremly toxic, especially to puffers). The only way to do that with an overstocked, non-cycled tank is large, frequent water changes.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Well, they seem to be getting worse - I changed 50% of the water and put a powerful air pump in the tank to aerate the water. But my question now is about cycling the tank. At 80% water changes twice a day, how will the tank cycle? And why does have too many puffers in a tank keep it from cycling? Do they excrete more ammonia than other fish? I was also under the impression that the tank HAD cycled, since I ran it for about a week and a half (on an already mature fitler, mind you) with five or six feeder guppies and ammonia was running at zero. I agree that stress may have been a factor, but the water conditions in the tank seemed to be fine.
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Boxermom
- Former Staff Member
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The bacteria isn't in the water column, its on surfaces, so doing water changes isn't going to affect the cycle. The more fish you have, the more waste they produce. Cycling is the process of building up the right kinds of bacteria to convert the ammonia in their waste to nitrites, then convert the nitrites to nitrates. Both ammonia and nitrites are deadly in very small amounts. The higher bioload you have, the harder it is for there to be sufficient bacteria to handle the conversions. Puffers are poop factories and are messy eaters, so yes, they have a higher bioload than many other fish. Five or six feeder guppies definitely isn't sufficient to create enough bacteria to handle three puffers. That's why you are now showing ammonia.
I would also highly recommend using Prime as your declorinator, as it will help detoxify the ammonia and nitrites so they won't poison the fish, but will still be available for the cycle.
I would also highly recommend using Prime as your declorinator, as it will help detoxify the ammonia and nitrites so they won't poison the fish, but will still be available for the cycle.
Tina
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
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Corvus
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Aside too much fish in the tank you probably killed your bacteria populations with formalin. That is another (or perhaps THE) reason, why you have ammonia, it is re-cycling now. All the "harder" meds like copper/formalin/antibiotics etc. should only be used in hospital tanks or a dips.
With regard to the needed water changes I agree completely.
With regard to the needed water changes I agree completely.
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a fish a man, and he'll eat for weeks.
