puffer with cotton growth..help!!

jfudge01 · Post by **jfudge01** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:46 am

Ok I have a 30 gallon tank with a baby GSP, baby f8 puffer, a pleco, 2 gauramis and 2 goldskirt tetras. starting with tap water treated with amquel and properpH7.0, i added a tablespoon/5 gallons of salt as per pet store instructions. everything seemed fine however today i added 2 more gold skirted tetras and now tonight my gsp has this cotton like growth on him and what look like white scratches on his eye and side. i just want to know whats wrong, ie whether its ick or fungus or a parasite, before i go about adding anything to the water to treat him. please help with any advice asap, i dont want him to die!! thanks in advance

manutius · Post by **manutius** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:14 am

Firstly have you read the articles on those puffers in the pufferpeadia? You will see that the tank you have is defiantel not a suitable environment for these fish. Aside from the fact that the puffers should be in their own tanks and the GSP will eventually need to move towards full marine water conditions the tank is way too small. How old is that tank? Are you using proper marine salt, not salt tonic. I'm not too sure that your other fish are brackish either which really mean that you should get two new tanks and move the puffers into those once they have been cycled. I think you have a few things to think about there.

I would think that your poorly puffer is being beaten up by one of your fish, probably the plec, what plec is it?

jfudge01 · Post by **jfudge01** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:23 am

yeah it was proper marine salt, and wait..the fish that i had called a pleco is maybe not that..its one of those fish that eats algae and chills on the bottom or sides of the tank and its only like 3" long but will grow to be like a foot. its really chill hardly ever moves and sticks onto the glass most of the time. anyways back to the puffer:

its a baby puffer so i figured 30 gallons is large enough for the two right now. they're only about an inch and half long. however, the temp on the tank reads only about 70-72 degrees. from what ive read this is apparently probably too cold? anyways, thanks for the reply

manutius · Post by **manutius** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:52 am

No problem sounds like you have a sailfin plec, they get very big and can be very territorial and mine even ha a go at my Mbu who could easily bite him in half

Does it look like a small version of this?

You will find with the more research you dothat puffers are ideally kept as single species. There are a few that can be kept with other fish and I know that I am not the best to say this with my tank but if I were you I would re-consider your set up

HRPuffersnStuff · Post by **HRPuffersnStuff** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:06 am

Yes, I had to move my big plec also as I caught him trying to beat up my new MBU.

Also, Jfudge, kudos on trying to do the best for your puffers and getting them in brackish water. Unfortunately, in trying to do so you haven't considered any other aspects that are equally important in keeping these fish. If your tank is brackish, your tetras, gourami and pleco are suffering in those conditions. Make sure you read up on these two species in the pufferpedia and find out what you have gotten into with these two little guys. Keep us updated on their condition.

For now, I would recommend adding pimafix AND melafix to take care of what sounds like a fungus problem, as well as any bacterial problem that might be associated with it. Good luck!

Post by **Pufferpunk** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:29 am

starting with tap water treated with amquel and proper pH7.0

Is this what you did to cycle the tank?

jfudge01 · Post by **jfudge01** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:43 pm

ok actually, being a little new to tropical fish i never cycled the tank. after reading on this site i realized the error of my ways and ran out last nite to buy startzyme, apparently it has live bacteria that is supposed to cut ammonia/nitrite levels.i added the first dose. i also got some fungusclear and added that to the water.

should i still add pimafix and melafix? i dont want my fish to be little druggies.

oh ya, any suggestions on the temperature??

as an update, my gsp is looking a little better. only tiny bits of cotton and a few fuzzy spots on him and hes back to normal color, not so dark. he also is still very active, espescially when food is put in the tank. also, a lot of the fungus i had seen in the fake plants is disappearing.

it was so wierd; all the fungus seriously just appeared in about 4 hours.

kass · Post by **kass** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:00 pm

The only product with live bacteria is Biospira. Nothing else will work. Temperature should be in the high 70s.
You should definately read the GSP and F8 articles in the library.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:11 pm

My suggestions: I"d return every fish except either the GSP and the F8 to the pet store, since they are not brackish fish and cannot survive long in the conditions the puffers will need. They are also adding bioload to an uncycled tank, meaning deadly ammonia and nitrites are going to build up VERY VERY fast. These will kill all fish if they build up enough, but they will kill puffers particularly fast, and most puffers will never suvive a tank cycling. Get biospira if you can, return that startzyme to the store and don't buy any other products they sell you. Toss out the perfect Ph 7.0, too, as that is too low for your puffers. If you can't find biospira, you will have to do 50% daily water changes until the tank tests zero ammonia and zero nitrites, get liquid reagent test kits, not dip sticks. I would turn up the temperature eventually, but right now having it at "bare minimum" will actually enable more O2 to disolve in the water and make the ammonia and nitrite slightly less harmful.

jfudge01 · Post by **jfudge01** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:11 pm

thanks for all the help guys. im actually really determined to have a community tank that all my fish willl tolerate. i bought a separate tank today that i will do daily water changes in while i give the other tank a chance to cycle. im adding pimafix and melafix every day to help heal any of the fish hurt by the time they spent in the ammonia-ridden tank. and im adding biospira by the gallon in the other tank to make it suitable asap for my poor little fish. my gsp seems to be doing a lot better. the medication sorta slows all the fish down a bit but theres no more fungus on the gsp, and his white cloudy spots are disappearing, hes still a little bit dark but i believe hes gonna make it.

i did have one question though..the guys at the fish store said 1tbsp per 5 gallons marine salt will-- if anything --be BENEFICIAL to the coats of the other fish (and necessary for the puffers). is this correct?

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:22 pm

The old "salt in FW" debate... yes, it will temperarily reduce osmotic stress, but if that matters is debateable, as their bodies are adapted to deal with it... we don't feel stress from atomospheric pressure, so neither will fish from osmotic pressure. However, short term before they are used to it and readjust it may help a little there. It will also improve gill function for osemotic reasons, but again, the fish will adapt to this, they don't ever move their gills more than they have to for O2, they are cold blooded creatures who easily regulate their metabolism and if O2 is more available, they just use their gills less. The arguement it will prevent ich is definately untrue, it only means you will get a strain of ich adapted to your ammount of salt and will need even more salt to get rid of it. If you are adding new fish without quarentine this might help kill ich they bring in, but you should quaretine fish. So my overall opinion is no, do not salt your water unless you are treating for something. 1 tbsp/5 gallons is not enough for your puffer long term either, though it's good for now. A GSP will need more than that as it grows, and just shy of full salt water as a full grown adult. Dont' do any water changes on the tank you added the biospira to for at least a week, even if you detect ammonia or nitrite - a tiny bump of each is normal. You added the GSP to the tank with the biospira already, right? Without the fish in the tank in under 24 hours, the bacteria die. Wish you luck!

manutius · Post by **manutius** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:23 pm

I have heard this salting of all tanks but I personally don't get why. I have never added salt to my FW tropical coms tanks and I have had most of my fish last 6 years or more. Maybe someone else knows why this is a common practice as I know my LFS does this too.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:28 pm

I think it's common because it's "old wisdom" and everyone that thinks they know anything about fish has been told at least once by someone that supposedly knows more than them that a tiny bit of salt in the water will help the fish breath, help heal wounds, and prevent disease. If it cures ich, it prevents it, right?

manutius · Post by **manutius** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:40 pm

I did wonder, I have just stopped using my smaller more convenient LFS as after having an arguement that the puffers they had were brackish not FW (GSP's and Ceylons) he proceded to tell me that all the tanks in the store contained salt. He gave the same answer actually and would not accept the Eberts description of the fish and said that he has kept puffers for 30 years and the all had been fine. When I asked why he thought they were all black he said it was a regional colour strain. What a tit!!!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:45 pm

LFS in gnereal do not have fish long enough to claim expereince in keeping them, no matter how long a period they have been ordering them and selling them to people for. Ask him how many he kept for more than a decade sometime, LOL.

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puffer with cotton growth..help!!

puffer with cotton growth..help!!