Well it's 11:30 pm and he is still kicking. He likes to go lay in the back corner of the tank or along the edge and just sit there. I have an air stone there, so maybe he is drawn to that area because the water is highly oxygenated. I followed your advice and did about a 35% water change and added some Seachem Prime, but I did put a bit extra in there (maybe 3/4 tsp when it called for 1/2 tsp). I still have the filter from the Oscar tank pressed up against the wall of my tank, right behind the intake to my filter, so hopefully it's sucking some of those bacteria into my filter media (I am using a biowheel 150, don't think I mentioned that before). Every once in a while he'll get a burst of energy and swim around the tank for a while. And when I try to tempt him with a little food, he always snaps right out of it and eats everything I put in there. So hopefully everything will be okay through the night, I'm sure the darkness will calm him down a little bit, and I have my air stone pumping at full blast to keep oxygen in there while the Prime (hopefully) does it's job. I checked the NH4 a little while ago and it was pretty much at zero, maybe just a tiny tiny bit a darker shade of yellow, but definitely not to the second bar, which is very light green. (that's when I put in the extra 1/4tsp of Prime) Nitrites are zero as well, so I'm just gonna keep my fingers crossed! I'll test it tomorrow again, and if it registers anything, do another water change. I tested the SG a little bit ago and it was at 1.002, maybe a HAIR over, (it's not the greatest hydrometer ever, it was $13 at Petco, so the readability is a little ambiguous).
Hoping for the best! And thanks again!
Bobby
GSP Puffer hates when I leave town
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
-
eraserhead187
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:58 pm
Oh one other question, I am using a salicylate based water test kit. Could this throw off ammonia readings when using the Prime product? I read somewhere that you should be careful using a salicylate based ammonia test when using prime. I saw that they also sell ammonia test strips that are made by Seachem, maybe I should just go pick up a pack of those.. I think the store opens in about 15 minutes, I will probably head over there straight away... I got home a few minutes ago from this running class (miserable weather today!) and did a test, to see that the ammonia level was between 0 and .25 ppm
Gettin off to an early start today!!
UPDATE: I went and bought one of the Seachem Ammonia Alert real-time ammonia monitors, and the sensor has stayed completely yellow, so I am guessing that the salycilate test was picking up total ammonia (even the not-so-toxic stuff) and free ammonia bother. Seachem says that the free ammonia is the only kind that really poses risk.
Gettin off to an early start today!!
UPDATE: I went and bought one of the Seachem Ammonia Alert real-time ammonia monitors, and the sensor has stayed completely yellow, so I am guessing that the salycilate test was picking up total ammonia (even the not-so-toxic stuff) and free ammonia bother. Seachem says that the free ammonia is the only kind that really poses risk.
-
OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:51 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Tetraodon biocellatus.
RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
I'm guessing you are using the strip-test kits, which are never as accurate as using a liquid test kit. Strip-tests are ok to use with an established tank, because they are fast and if they register anything it will alert you that something is awry. But during a delicate time such as cycling a tank (especially with a fish in it), more accurate tests are much much better. I don't know if you have already gone to the store, but if you haven't try to grab some liquid ammonia, nitrate and nitrite tests.
The Seachem Ammonia Alerts take a while to re-adjust after they detect ammonia, and they aren't exact either. I keep one in my snail breeder and in my Figure Eight tank (both established tanks) just to make me feel better knowing if something goes wrong in the tanks it will register on the alert. I do not rely on the alert for weekly water testing; I still use a Master Saltwater-Test kit on my brackish and salt aquariums.
As for the filter from the oscar tank (I didn't really understand what you were saying about it), is it running in the 20 gallon or is it just sitting in the tank? I would run it in the 20 gallon if you aren't already; if you're worried about creating too much current either turn down the flow on one or both of the filters or turn down the amount of air going into the airstone.
The Seachem Ammonia Alerts take a while to re-adjust after they detect ammonia, and they aren't exact either. I keep one in my snail breeder and in my Figure Eight tank (both established tanks) just to make me feel better knowing if something goes wrong in the tanks it will register on the alert. I do not rely on the alert for weekly water testing; I still use a Master Saltwater-Test kit on my brackish and salt aquariums.
As for the filter from the oscar tank (I didn't really understand what you were saying about it), is it running in the 20 gallon or is it just sitting in the tank? I would run it in the 20 gallon if you aren't already; if you're worried about creating too much current either turn down the flow on one or both of the filters or turn down the amount of air going into the airstone.
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
-
eraserhead187
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:58 pm
Hey there.
I do have a nice big liquid test kit, and that is what I have been using. I only bought the Ammonia Alert tester because on Seachem's web site, it says that if you are using a salicylite test kit (which mine says it is), it will register both free, harmful ammonia, AND they NH4+ ionized ammonia that has been bound by the Prime and rendered mostly harmless. So the test result for actual, toxic ammonia can give a false positive. I have been using the liquid test at least 3 times a day, and now have the Ammonia Alert guy in there as well. The liquid test is called Freshwater Master Test Kit.
The problem with putting the entire Oscar filtration system in this tank, is that it is a really large filter, and won't fit in the 20 gallon tank. The filter cartridge won't fit in there either. I supposed I could cut it in half, but that would be rather messy. I have the thing pressed up against the back wall of the tank. It is pressed up against my intake so my intake into MY filter system is sucking some water through the Oscar filter into my filter. I move it a few inches about twice a day to make sure it is getting a good spread.
Here are some pictures I took:
These show the position of the filter:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n40/ ... fishy1.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n40/ ... fishy2.jpg
And these are of the little fella him(her?)self:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n40/ ... fishy3.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n40/ ... fishy4.jpg
The Figure 8 has been MUCH more active today, he has been swimming around a lot and has had to take much less break time down by the air stone. I just fed him a few minutes ago and his appetite is serious to say the least. His belly doesn't seem to have much gray on it today either.
I do have a nice big liquid test kit, and that is what I have been using. I only bought the Ammonia Alert tester because on Seachem's web site, it says that if you are using a salicylite test kit (which mine says it is), it will register both free, harmful ammonia, AND they NH4+ ionized ammonia that has been bound by the Prime and rendered mostly harmless. So the test result for actual, toxic ammonia can give a false positive. I have been using the liquid test at least 3 times a day, and now have the Ammonia Alert guy in there as well. The liquid test is called Freshwater Master Test Kit.
The problem with putting the entire Oscar filtration system in this tank, is that it is a really large filter, and won't fit in the 20 gallon tank. The filter cartridge won't fit in there either. I supposed I could cut it in half, but that would be rather messy. I have the thing pressed up against the back wall of the tank. It is pressed up against my intake so my intake into MY filter system is sucking some water through the Oscar filter into my filter. I move it a few inches about twice a day to make sure it is getting a good spread.
Here are some pictures I took:
These show the position of the filter:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n40/ ... fishy1.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n40/ ... fishy2.jpg
And these are of the little fella him(her?)self:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n40/ ... fishy3.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n40/ ... fishy4.jpg
The Figure 8 has been MUCH more active today, he has been swimming around a lot and has had to take much less break time down by the air stone. I just fed him a few minutes ago and his appetite is serious to say the least. His belly doesn't seem to have much gray on it today either.
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OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:51 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Tetraodon biocellatus.
RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
I see what you mean about the filter! You definitely don't want to cut that thing up, so your current arrangement is a good idea.
The water testing sounds good, I just wanted to check to be sure. I'm so glad to hear the puffer is doing better; it looks like he/she has a full stomach and the belly doesn't look dark in the pictures. Keep up the good work!
The water testing sounds good, I just wanted to check to be sure. I'm so glad to hear the puffer is doing better; it looks like he/she has a full stomach and the belly doesn't look dark in the pictures. Keep up the good work!
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
-
eraserhead187
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:58 pm
Howdy!
Just wanted to give a little update on the Figure 8 (I really oughtta name him soon...). He continues to do better and better, slowly. Her seems to be swimming around for longer and longer periods of time in between breaks, when he will hang out at the bottom to huff & puff (not puff, but breathe heavily) for a while. Yesterday I took the other filter cartridge out of the Oscar tank and replaced the one currently resting in the Puffer tank with it. I did a 50% water change today, and dosed it up with the Prime, of course. I have made water changes every day, though the ammonia tests have showed little to none, I wanted to be safe anyway. He seems to enjoy it when I change the water, he always gets up and checks everything out. Ammonia and Nitrites have been zero the last several times I've checked, and he certainly hasn't gotten any worse. So now I am just hoping that the damage to his gills will reverse in time, and he won't need to take frequent "breathers" throughout the day. Occasionally his belly will get a tad gray, but after he's caught his breath, it always goes back to white. It especially turns white when it's dinner time (he is such a little pig!)
For several days though, he has had a few tiny white spots on top. They have not spread or gotten any larger, so I am hoping that they will at least not spread, and will go away when I eventually raise the SG of the tank after the biological filter is ready. I thought about tossing a little Melafix in there, but I was afraid it would mess with the bacteria. The directions say that it won't affect the biological filter, but I'm still wary. Am I just being paranoid, or should I wait a while and just increase the salinity over time & hope they fade away?
Thanks again for all the help, if it wasn't for you, this poor little guy would be long since dead, and I would have given up on puffers altogether.
Again, thanks a million!
Just wanted to give a little update on the Figure 8 (I really oughtta name him soon...). He continues to do better and better, slowly. Her seems to be swimming around for longer and longer periods of time in between breaks, when he will hang out at the bottom to huff & puff (not puff, but breathe heavily) for a while. Yesterday I took the other filter cartridge out of the Oscar tank and replaced the one currently resting in the Puffer tank with it. I did a 50% water change today, and dosed it up with the Prime, of course. I have made water changes every day, though the ammonia tests have showed little to none, I wanted to be safe anyway. He seems to enjoy it when I change the water, he always gets up and checks everything out. Ammonia and Nitrites have been zero the last several times I've checked, and he certainly hasn't gotten any worse. So now I am just hoping that the damage to his gills will reverse in time, and he won't need to take frequent "breathers" throughout the day. Occasionally his belly will get a tad gray, but after he's caught his breath, it always goes back to white. It especially turns white when it's dinner time (he is such a little pig!)
For several days though, he has had a few tiny white spots on top. They have not spread or gotten any larger, so I am hoping that they will at least not spread, and will go away when I eventually raise the SG of the tank after the biological filter is ready. I thought about tossing a little Melafix in there, but I was afraid it would mess with the bacteria. The directions say that it won't affect the biological filter, but I'm still wary. Am I just being paranoid, or should I wait a while and just increase the salinity over time & hope they fade away?
Thanks again for all the help, if it wasn't for you, this poor little guy would be long since dead, and I would have given up on puffers altogether.
Again, thanks a million!
-
Boxermom
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 2182
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:34 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
If the spots look like salt grains, its ich parasites and won't go away on their own but will just get worse. You'll have to treat with salt and increased heat. Melafix won't do anything to get rid of it, but can help prevent infection once they fall off the fish and leave tiny wounds. Melafix won't affect the bacteria at all. Ich needs to be treated for a minimum of 2 weeks, even if you don't see anything on the fish. They can only be killed in their free-floating stage when they aren't attached to the fish.
Tina
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
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OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:51 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Tetraodon biocellatus.
RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
I'm glad he is still inquisitive and eating well. I hope it isn't ich after all you have been through with this little guy. Look on google for pictures of ich and compare them to his. If it looks like ich treat as Boxermom suggested so it doesn't get worse. It's possible he's breathing hard because of the ich; it could be in his gills as well.
You're doing great keeping up the water quality.
You're doing great keeping up the water quality.
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
-
eraserhead187
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:58 pm
Howdy!
It doesn't really look so much like the pictures I saw of Ich on the web, maybe a little. This isn't quite like salt grains, it is more oddly shaped. There are two of them on his head area, and what appears to be one more on his side. They almost look cottony. They have been there for about a week, and from what I can tell have not spread to other areas, but may have increased very slightly in size. I put a dose of Pimafix and Melafix in the tank in case it was a fungus and to ward off any secondary infection. Hopefully that's all it is....
I had something similar happen with a cichlid not too long ago. He had some white cottony stuff above his mouth. I treated with Pimafix for a few days, and it went totally away. Then a few days ago he started to get something there again, but this time it is a brownish color. Today it is much more visible, so I started to treat the tank with Pimafix again. Hopefully it goes away for good this time!!
The little puffer has found a new hobby- he loves to swim into the bubbles from the airstone, and let it push him to the top of the aquarium. Then he comes back down and does it again. I saw him doing this for about 2 hours last night, it was hilarious!
It doesn't really look so much like the pictures I saw of Ich on the web, maybe a little. This isn't quite like salt grains, it is more oddly shaped. There are two of them on his head area, and what appears to be one more on his side. They almost look cottony. They have been there for about a week, and from what I can tell have not spread to other areas, but may have increased very slightly in size. I put a dose of Pimafix and Melafix in the tank in case it was a fungus and to ward off any secondary infection. Hopefully that's all it is....
I had something similar happen with a cichlid not too long ago. He had some white cottony stuff above his mouth. I treated with Pimafix for a few days, and it went totally away. Then a few days ago he started to get something there again, but this time it is a brownish color. Today it is much more visible, so I started to treat the tank with Pimafix again. Hopefully it goes away for good this time!!
The little puffer has found a new hobby- he loves to swim into the bubbles from the airstone, and let it push him to the top of the aquarium. Then he comes back down and does it again. I saw him doing this for about 2 hours last night, it was hilarious!
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eraserhead187
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:58 pm
Cool, I put a dose of each in there yesterday, and have already dosed the tank today. I just hope I caught it in time... I am a little concerned that he has regressed a little. He has been pretty lazy, and seems to be positioned face-down towards the sand whenever he moves around, though not always. The funny thing is when I put some blackworms in there, he snaps out of it enough to go eat some. I really hope he pulls through, I've tried really hard and spent a lot of time and money trying to get him fixed up. I tested the water twice yesterday at different points in the day, and bot times Ammonia was 0 and Nitrites were 0. And I didn't do a water change yesterday, so I am betting that the biological filter has started to become set up more successfully. I'll see how he is when I go home on lunch today. I've also been having problems with my stupid Penguin Bio-Wheel 150, the one I have in the puffer's tank. The thing just shuts off and runs dry every once in a while. I've found a way to rig it so it works okay, but it is louder like this.. Oh well, I can just go back to Petco and exchange the thing..
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
-
eraserhead187
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:58 pm
Well, bad news. I came home from work on lunch today, and the little puffer was dead. I was able to take a close look at the spots on him, and it definitely looks like a fungus. So who knows what did him in, maybe it was the fungus, maybe he was just exhausted, or maybe both...
Bummer
Thanks for all your help though, I really do appreciate it. Hopefully I'll have some better luck next time.
Bummer
Thanks for all your help though, I really do appreciate it. Hopefully I'll have some better luck next time.
-
OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:51 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Tetraodon biocellatus.
RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
Oh no 
You tried very hard to help him though, so hopefully everything you've learned about puffers in this small amount of time will help you when you decide to try again.
You tried very hard to help him though, so hopefully everything you've learned about puffers in this small amount of time will help you when you decide to try again.
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
-
eraserhead187
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:58 pm
Yeah that's kind of how I am thinking about it to... It's just a bummer, after all that work. But I guess that's how things go in the fishy world... I am resolved to try again though, and I have to go up to the place that I bought him this weekend to grab a couple things for my cichlid tank. So I will continue to monitor the water quality (the last 4 days there has been 0 ammonia & 0 nitrite every time I have tested, without doing any water changes), and maybe grab another little guy like him if one stands out to me. Then I guess we'll try it again!!
Thanks for all your help and support!
Thanks for all your help and support!