My new baby F8's!

Trems · Post by **Trems** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:39 pm

Hey guys

This is my first post, I've just got into the world of puffers (well fish altogether actually!)

Here is my story...

I've always loved puffers and wanted to keep them for years, i finally got a tank, got bought a 90 liter Juwel tank for my birthday, got it up and running 3 weeks ago, bought some cycle supplement and got the water going for just over a week, then i took a water sample to my local fish place (Shirley aquatics) and they said everything was spot on and i could get some puffers!
Anyway, they just had a delivery of tiny baby F8 puffers (15mm long!) so i had two of them, i also bought some bogwood and some plants, which I've been treating to flora boost once a week when I've been doing 10% changes. Also using the recommended dose of aqua plus water treatment.

I've had the puffers just over a week now and they seem reasonably happy, i feed them once a day, just a small amount of bloodworms (frozen) as i didn't want the ammonia to build up what with it being only a week before i got the fish.

The only problems i have come across are the following:

-Water colour, i think its the wood but he water is very orange, seems to be benefiting from the changes but was wondering how long it was be stained by the wood (if this is the only culprit) as i did boil it all for a few hours and leave it soaking over night o try and get it clear of the sap/dye.

-I haven't put any salt in, i bought some 'Betta tonic salts' but not sure how much to add, I've read all sorts about what to do but everything and everyone contradicts each other, I've even been told that i shouldn't add any until they are bigger as in the wilds they are born in fresher water and then the swim downstream towards the sea where it is more salty???
Anyway one of them (p.diddy) seems to regularly flick himself up against the wood and plants, I've had a close look and cant see any obvious fungus/whitespot etc...could he be irritated by the lack of salt?

-Lastly i have my stat set on the min mark but cant get the tank below 26deg C...and when the house is warm it can be as high as 28 and I'm a little concerned.

Any opinions on my setup/method would be much appreciated....I'm also looking to get them some tank mate....preferably some bottom/algae feeders any suggestions?

I'll post some pics if i can.

Thanks for providing such a great site by the way, I've spent hours reading the threads and learned alot over the past few weeks!

-Paul

Trems · Post by **Trems** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:58 pm

Meet p.diddy and dave :]

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:54 pm

First, they are very cute! However, I would test your water daily, I'm not totally clear on how you said you cycled, but as it sounds like it cycled way to fast, and I know adding a cycling product alone with no fish(unless it is pure ammonia for a fishless cycle and that takes a month, maybe more) won't cycle a tank. The tannins from the wood are probably tinting the water, boiling should help with that. On salt: Do not use aqarium salt or betta tonic salts, they will not give your puffers the right kind of water. Figure 8 puffers live in fresh water in the wild(green spotted puffers are the well known puffer that go from fresh to brackish to nearly marine as they age), however, using marine salt mix (like instant ocean) will give the water a hardness and alkalinity that will make your F8's live much longer less diseased lives. The ideal salt level is 1.005 on a hydrometer or refractometer. They do not live as long and tend to have fungus problems if kept in fresh water in aquaria. When you increase the salinity of the water, make sure you increase it by no more than .002 per week, or your tank will lose it's cycle and you may loose the puffers. I would also not add anything else living to your tank, when your figure 8's grow up, they will need all the water volume your tank has just for their bioload. Besides, there are no available brackish algae eaters available. Maybe you could get away with a couple bumble bee gobies. Also, you need to increase the volume of your water changes. While the tank is new nitrate may be staying reasonably low with only 10% weekly, but for optimal water quality, 50% is recommended for puffers and their health may suffer from nitrate and other organic buildups. Thats all the advice I can think of right now,

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:56 pm

Welcome! 26-28c is fine for their temp. Betta tonic salt is not what you need, you need marine salt. Not all ich/white spot is visible, sometimes its in the gills where you can't see it. Not that I'm sure that's what it has, but just saying its possible. Adding salt should help. The water is colored from the wood, which will eventually go away with water changes once the tanins are done leeching out. Otherwise the color is harmless. I'd recommend more plants though, at least double the amount you have.

manutius · Post by **manutius** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:28 am

welcome the the forum, great looking fish there. Follow the advicew given and you will be rewarded with happy healthy fish. Dave is a great name too

OraLacerta · Post by **OraLacerta** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:56 am

Quick fact about bogwood- you will need to remove it once you add the marine salt because wood rots much faster in salt water than in fresh. Stores do sell wonderful looking fake wood decorations that many of us use in our brackish water tanks.

Having two figure eights in the 90 Liter should be fine, but I wouldn't add anything else to the tank. Test the water parameters daily for nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia, because it sounds like you used Cycle which unfortunately is little more than dead bacteria in a bottle and won't cycle the tank.

I have two figure eights myself and they are wonderful fish. Welcome to the forum and be sure to ask us if you have any more questions!

Trems · Post by **Trems** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:50 pm

Thankyou all for your advice...i have a few more questions and i will also expand a little on what i first posted:

With regards to the cycling , yes i did exactly that...just added 'cycle' for a week...don't think I'll be taking any more advice from the place down the road!
Tested the ammonia again today...0.6mg/l so its on the up. I'm going to reduce the amount i feed the boys for a while and test it every day and see what it does. Should i get a nitrite/nitrate kit aswell do you think?

The colour of the water seems to be getting better, I'm trying to do 5-10% every few days and it seems to be clearing. So if boiling once and soaking for a few days doesn't work is there another way?

I'm really annoyed at the shop for there general bad advice and selling me duff products, i don't think I'll buy anything else important until I've consulted you guys in future!..going to take the betta salt back and get some proper marine salt and a hydrometer.

I've also had a little move around in the tank....going to get some more plants at the weekend, I've moved the grassy stuff and the wood more upright to make some hiding places underneath...I'm going to get some more of the java fern to put at the space I've made back left and then some smaller, finer plants for the middle.

*photobucket isn't working!*

I was also thinking of painting the back black...what do you guys think, good idea?

Finally i was wondering what you guys do with your fish when you are changing around/cleaning the tank....i left them in today when i was moving their furniture (carefully) but they didn't look very happy...lots of swimming up and down the glass, would it be less stressful when doing this sort of thing to put them in a separate container with some of their tank water in?

...I've already put this in another thread but there seem to be some other inhabitants in my tank! the first are like Little umbrella type things, and the second are some veeery tiny thread-like worms. Is this bad?

Trems · Post by **Trems** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:37 pm

works now...

bosshogg · Post by **bosshogg** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:11 pm

I would check your tank dimensions, It looks very much like my Juwel Rekord 70 that is 70 litres not 90, might make a difference,

http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/rekord.htm?cat=14

manutius · Post by **manutius** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:33 am

Hi trems. When it comes to re-arranging and cleaning leave the puffers in the tank, though they may not appear to like it it will be less stressfull than being being netted, moved intoa small container, then sploshed backa again. Certain bits of bogwood can lkeach for a very long time, addding activated carbon to you filter will help remove the tannins and you will be able to buy a small box of it form LFS.

The new layout sounds good but I think Bosshog may be on to something with the tank size :s

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:45 pm

If you detect any ammonia or nitrite in the tank, do a 50% water change that day. So yes, you will need nitrite and nitrate test kits, and a hydrometer/refractometer, to care for your tank. I would not worry about the critters in your tank. Most likely they are harmless and may end up as puffer food. As far as painting the back black, it's my opinion that a cheap fish store background with lots of different colors stuck on looks better than solid black or blue, which always looks synthetic, and you have a nice natural look in the tank so far. I'm glad you are here and working hard to take proper care of your puffers, most people will just listen to the LFS until the puffers are dead.

Trems · Post by **Trems** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:42 pm

Yeah the guy at the shop was trying to get me to buy some of the plastic film...but it just looks a little tacky to me?...i think i'll have a surf and see whats available and look at as many similar tanks as i can before i do anything at the back.

As for the ammonia, after yesterdays water change the ammonia levels are zero again...

Regarding tank size, i think you're right, just been on juwels site and it looks like it is the 70, oh well that just means i've been doing more like 13% changes rather than 10!

I bought some more stuff today...more plants (as per the advice!) another fairly big java and some little ones (not sure what), i figured i'll put as much in as i can and then find out in time which like brackish and which don't, the boys are loving the new scenery, lots of lower tank swimming and exploring as opposed to the constant 'seeking' up and down the glass previously.I'm still fresh at the moment by the way, i 'm going to wait until i've got he chemistry a little more stable before i add any salt i think, its all new to me and i'm still finding my feet.
I also bought some different food (currently on bloodworms and chopped muscules, frozen) went for tubiflexes but they don't seem to be too keen, they didnt like the chopped cockles either, are puffers usually picky?

Finally i got an aireator, what is the general concensus on aireation? previously i had the filter outlet towards the surface as i felt the 'disturbed' water would make for a better gas exchange and stop as much scum building up, but i bough the proper juwel aireator today, modified it a little (crap design std) and now its bubbling away nicely...i've tweaked the adjustor down so that the induction is just not audible. i mean obvioulsy this must make for more oxygenated water but are there any negatives?

another question....In the LFS i saw some lovely black shiney substrate, was thinking of investing in some once my new plants have rooted a bit, does the material used for substrate matter in a soon-to-be brackish setup?

...Oh one more thing, dave is currently swimming around withe a long stringy poo hanging out of him(!), it looks like a string of pearls, long thin string with whiteish balls on it???

diddy has stopped scratching himself on teh plants too....must have finally got that itch he was after

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My new baby F8's!

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