Figure Eight with a Nematode- Update 6/26

[OraLacerta]

My second figure eight, 'Bismarck', has had a little lump under his skin near his tail for several months. I noticed it after I began feeding a regular amount of snails (weekly feedings). The snails were all home-bred rams and a couple of pond snails, but the ponds all died off before I had a chance to feed my puffs any. I still have a feeling there was some sort of parasite that carried over to my brackish tank. None of the other fish have signs of parasites, so it is possible Bismark had this when I got him and it has just been growing very slowly.

At this point it has gotten very large, and is spreading from the right side, underneath and to his left side, leaving his tail region rather distorted. The mass looks like spaghetti under his skin; little round coils. At first I was thinking it could have been a fishy hernia... but I doubt he's been doing any heavy lifting. lol.

Anyways, so I know there really isn't anything I can do for his nematode; using meds to kill them would probably poison him as they rot in his body. Has anyone ever done surgery on their fish before? The lumps are all right under the skin, and if I could use some clove oil to put him out for a couple of minutes, maybe I could get the biggest ones out of him and then use meds to kill any remaining infestation? That is of course if he lives through me slicing his skin and pulling the worms out... I really don't want to do surgery on him, but I figure it's better than letting these things have their way with him and kill the poor guy. Bismarck and my other figure eight really seem to be pair bonded... they possibly even spawned together, so I do not want to lose Bismarck.

I'm picking up clove oil, a scalpel, pima/melafix, a magnifying glass, and some parasite treatment today, but I am open to any suggestions before I go through with this. I'll probably go ahead and do it next weekend.

[RTR]

If the fish survived the surgery, the big issue would be to keep the incision from tearing open. Puffer skin is unique, designed to expand tremendously when the critter inflates. i would have no clue as to how to close the wound in a manner which would not rip apart should the beast inflate, which they do for practice periodically.

Most somatic nematode infestations are from the wild - these are all wild-caught fish.

[Pufferpunk]

What about stitches? I'd get strronger antibiotic than Mela/Pimafix. You might want to paint the wound w/mecurachrome too.

[Nick]

Are you sure it's a worm, not a tumor? Turmours growths look like all different things, I've never heard of parasites building up to that kind of size without already killing their host by using up too much nutrients.

[RTR]

Nematodes are common in puffers, and those are valid symptoms. They also not uncommonly move around under the fish's skin.

Routine stitches will tear through quite easily. They are not intended for lateral stress situations without support. Even humas tear sutures with some frequency.

[OraLacerta]

If the fish survived the surgery, the big issue would be to keep the incision from tearing open. Puffer skin is unique, designed to expand tremendously when the critter inflates. i would have no clue as to how to close the wound in a manner which would not rip apart should the beast inflate, which they do for practice periodically.

Most somatic nematode infestations are from the wild - these are all wild-caught fish.

Thanks for posting your thoughts, RTR. I guess it's good to know this is something he got before he was bought, therefore my other puff and fish should be ok. I am really worried about the wound ripping open... I was thinking about how I could stitch him, but it's a daunting task to perform on such a small creature. I guess it's not a good idea anyways from what you're describing about their skin. I've never seen him puff before, which doesn't mean he hasn't or never will, but I'm hoping if I can't figure out a way to close up the wound that he won't puff... Maybe I'll keep his recovery tank light off and cover the tank to keep it relatively dark.

PufferPunk: What would you suggest for stronger antibiotics? And Mercurachrome is the same as iodine, right? I know some iodine has alcohol mixed with it (which is bad), but I've read a couple things about people using pure iodine on fish scrapes.

Nick: I've been researching all about tumors and nemotodes and the like ever since his bump appeared. I found a couple of pictures of nemotodes on fish and his looks just like those, only much larger unfortunately.

Thank you for all of the suggestions and ideas. I'm going to be brainstorming of ways to close up the wound afterwards. I'm definitely going to make the incision as small as possible, but who knows what I will find once I get him open.

[Boxermom]

Routine stitches will tear through quite easily. They are not intended for lateral stress situations without support. Even humas tear sutures with some frequency.

Superglue maybe? The stuff they sell as "liquid bandages" and use on humans to close wounds on places like knuckles and elbows and other bendable areas?

[OraLacerta]

That's a great idea!!! Do you think it could be toxic to him though? If not toxic, do those things hold up in water? I've never used them before but I've seen plenty of ads for the stuff. Maybe I can use it on something and submerge the object under water to see if it breaks down.

[Boxermom]

Stuck on me for about a week. Stings like the devil though, especially when put in a very sensitive area. 'Nuff said about that! Dunno if its toxic to them but I know superglue is often used in fish tanks for various purposes, including attaching corals.

[RTR]

Superglues are used in human surgery, but it is hard to generalize safety from humans to fish. They are waterproof.

[bosshogg]

I used to sell Loctite products some years ago and there is more than one type of superglue, some may be harmless but others could have toxic chemicals in them dependent on fast or slow drying and the surface/material type to be glued.

It's a safe bet that hospital grade will be different to the off the shelf variety's.

You could contact Loctite and ask them what grade is used in hospitals.
http://www.loctite.com

[Nick]

My own experience with superglue, which is just about the only thing I use for small cuts anymore, indicates it will not work unwater. The glue is waterproof, but it will not set properly on a wet surface unless you really use it heavily. If you did get the wound dry enough to get the glue to set, it will slowly detach as the tussues absorbs water - I've often had the superglue bandages start to separate if I leave my hand in an aquarium for a long time, the glue holds, but the dead skin it's sticking to doesn't. Perhaps the worm could be scooped out through a small opening that will not constitute a major wound on it's own?

[OraLacerta]

Well, I'll look into the medical grade superglue then. Thanks for the link Bosshogg.

Nick: I might just have to try it because it seems like my only option. I am planning on keeping the incision as small as possible, but I have no idea how hard it will be to remove them. We'll see when I get in there.

Thanks for all of your suggestions thus far, everyone. I really appreciate it!

[Pufferpunk]

Do you have someone to take pics of the surgery?

[kass]

Good luck!
Maybe you could try contacting a fish vet and get some advice.