I don't. I know betterBoxermom wrote:Fish in stores are usually very stressed from being packaged and shipped for sometimes days at a time, too. Its never a good idea to judge their passiveness or aggression based on what you see in the store.
carinotetraodon lorteti
- Troender
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 1843
- Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:04 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: 1x GSP (Bolla), 1x m. something. Bought as a leiurus, maybe a turgidus (Tiger), 1x c. irrubesco (Tott(a) aka Houdini) 1x c. salivator (Jack the Ripper), 1x m. cochinchinensis (Hufflepuff - R.I.P.), 2x c. lorteti (Tommy and Tigern = Calvin and Hubbes), 1x m. suvatti (Koseklumpen), 1x m. palembangensis (Dragonfly), 2x t. biocellatus (Koken and Fiken).
- Location: Askim, Norway
Inger Anne
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! -George Carlin

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! -George Carlin

-
nmonks
- Mentor
- Posts: 364
- Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 8:33 am
- My Puffers: Carinotetraodon irrubesco
Colomesus asellus - Contact:
Overstocking is a standard method for diffusing aggression with mbuna, Central American cichlids, mudskippers, archerfish, monos, halfbeaks, and swordtails. I see no reason at all why it wouldn't work with pufferfish. They are, after all, just fish.
The "gotcha" is of course water quality. Mudskippers couldn't care less about water quality (they live in swamps) but pufferfish are comparable to cichlids in terms of their intolerance of dissolved metabolites in the water. So as with overstocking a Rift Valley cichlid aquarium, you may solve one problem (aggression) while creating another (health).
A lot of aquarists confuse territoriality with bullying. Most cichlids and many pufferfish are territorial: they will actively protect a region they view as their 'home turf' and other fish entering that region and viewed as rivals will be threatened or attacked. In a tank with six or eight fish, each fish has to track and react lots of rivals and finds it difficult to bully one specimen. So there's a sort of Mexican standoff, with the relationships between the fish in a sort of dynamic tension, constantly in flux as the fish move about but never able to settle into a fixed hierarchy.
In a tank with only two or three fish, the strongest fish will be able to become hyperdominant, that is, claim the entire tank as its own, because it is able to spend more time threatening the other one or two fishes in the tank. That's bullying. Such bullying isn't "normal" behaviour and shouldn't be termed as such: it is a function of aquarium conditions. Many species that exhibit bullying in the aquarium form 'colonies' in the wild or even schools (archerfish are the classic example here, schooling fish in the wild, difficult to keep in small groups in aquaria).
There's a great video on YouTube of a school of plecs. In aquaria, plecs are always described as "territorial, one-to-a-tank fish". Quite clearly, they are not so in the wild.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bK5wg2tZ0U
In other words, aquarists assumptions of what is "normal" behaviour is in many cases simply not the case. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if C. lorteti wasn't relatively peaceful in the wild, where conspecifics could either keep their distance or simply occured in such numbers that tensions were diffused easily. Perhaps the variability in aggression we see in pufferfish reveals differences in how they are kept in aquaria rather than some innate untrustworthiness in their behaviour or genes.
Cheers, Neale
The "gotcha" is of course water quality. Mudskippers couldn't care less about water quality (they live in swamps) but pufferfish are comparable to cichlids in terms of their intolerance of dissolved metabolites in the water. So as with overstocking a Rift Valley cichlid aquarium, you may solve one problem (aggression) while creating another (health).
A lot of aquarists confuse territoriality with bullying. Most cichlids and many pufferfish are territorial: they will actively protect a region they view as their 'home turf' and other fish entering that region and viewed as rivals will be threatened or attacked. In a tank with six or eight fish, each fish has to track and react lots of rivals and finds it difficult to bully one specimen. So there's a sort of Mexican standoff, with the relationships between the fish in a sort of dynamic tension, constantly in flux as the fish move about but never able to settle into a fixed hierarchy.
In a tank with only two or three fish, the strongest fish will be able to become hyperdominant, that is, claim the entire tank as its own, because it is able to spend more time threatening the other one or two fishes in the tank. That's bullying. Such bullying isn't "normal" behaviour and shouldn't be termed as such: it is a function of aquarium conditions. Many species that exhibit bullying in the aquarium form 'colonies' in the wild or even schools (archerfish are the classic example here, schooling fish in the wild, difficult to keep in small groups in aquaria).
There's a great video on YouTube of a school of plecs. In aquaria, plecs are always described as "territorial, one-to-a-tank fish". Quite clearly, they are not so in the wild.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bK5wg2tZ0U
In other words, aquarists assumptions of what is "normal" behaviour is in many cases simply not the case. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if C. lorteti wasn't relatively peaceful in the wild, where conspecifics could either keep their distance or simply occured in such numbers that tensions were diffused easily. Perhaps the variability in aggression we see in pufferfish reveals differences in how they are kept in aquaria rather than some innate untrustworthiness in their behaviour or genes.
Cheers, Neale
- Hilly
- Mentor
- Posts: 1903
- Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:36 pm
- Gender: Male
- My Puffers: Current: Tetraodon Lineatus
Previous:
Tetraodon Sabahensis
Montrete Abei
Tetraodon Biocellatus
Carinotetraodon Salivator - Location (country): UK
- Location: Nottinghamshire, UK
I still believe the key to success with the Salivator is overstocking, aggression between single pairs is abundant and tank size seems to be irrelevant to minimize aggression betwen a single pair. There may be exceptioons but I think overstocking is the best bet at keeping males and females of this species together.
Hilly
- Hilly
- Mentor
- Posts: 1903
- Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:36 pm
- Gender: Male
- My Puffers: Current: Tetraodon Lineatus
Previous:
Tetraodon Sabahensis
Montrete Abei
Tetraodon Biocellatus
Carinotetraodon Salivator - Location (country): UK
- Location: Nottinghamshire, UK
As this species isn't exactly cheap there is a financial risk to take ionto account but I am hoping to test this out, if it doesnt work at least it can be documented for others to learn from.
There seems to be some confusion from some members of whether i'm a man or a woman, this sets the record straight, cant think why, Hilly doesnt exactly sound like a womans name.Taly wrote:You're a bloke Hilly?
Hilly
- taly
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:43 pm
- My Puffers: Abei, 2x Salivator, 3x Irrubesco
- Location: Rogaland, Norway
A friend (girl) she's Hilly...
more girls name than boy... But I'm from Norway. hehe
The salivator is not cheap at all! But with an extra tank (empty) I'm hoping for the best...
I want lorteti Troender!! ;P Why do you have to tell me that they are in Norway!!?? WHY?!
I have no more tanks! And I have to wait and see if I get the borneensis here...
oh...
The salivator is not cheap at all! But with an extra tank (empty) I'm hoping for the best...
I want lorteti Troender!! ;P Why do you have to tell me that they are in Norway!!?? WHY?!
I have no more tanks! And I have to wait and see if I get the borneensis here...
natalie
- Troender
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 1843
- Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:04 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: 1x GSP (Bolla), 1x m. something. Bought as a leiurus, maybe a turgidus (Tiger), 1x c. irrubesco (Tott(a) aka Houdini) 1x c. salivator (Jack the Ripper), 1x m. cochinchinensis (Hufflepuff - R.I.P.), 2x c. lorteti (Tommy and Tigern = Calvin and Hubbes), 1x m. suvatti (Koseklumpen), 1x m. palembangensis (Dragonfly), 2x t. biocellatus (Koken and Fiken).
- Location: Askim, Norway
Hehehe! It was your pictures that made me want c. Salivator. So now we are eventaly wrote:I want lorteti Troender!! ;P Why do you have to tell me that they are in Norway!!?? WHY?!
I have no more tanks! And I have to wait and see if I get the borneensis here...oh...
Inger Anne
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! -George Carlin

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! -George Carlin

- Troender
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 1843
- Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:04 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: 1x GSP (Bolla), 1x m. something. Bought as a leiurus, maybe a turgidus (Tiger), 1x c. irrubesco (Tott(a) aka Houdini) 1x c. salivator (Jack the Ripper), 1x m. cochinchinensis (Hufflepuff - R.I.P.), 2x c. lorteti (Tommy and Tigern = Calvin and Hubbes), 1x m. suvatti (Koseklumpen), 1x m. palembangensis (Dragonfly), 2x t. biocellatus (Koken and Fiken).
- Location: Askim, Norway
Wow. I just had a look at akvaforum. There I saw a salivator at the "random friend/fish". I had a look at it and smiled. That is a beautiful fish. Then I went here and saw your last message! Quite a coincidence! Yes, it was your picture!
Inger Anne
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! -George Carlin

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! -George Carlin
