Kohan also said the fish was rolling about. The jiggling thing is the accepted method for getting air out, not something I just thought up, and PP suggested air earlier in the thread, and Rocker directed Kohan to the de-puffing sticky...both are very experienced fishkeepers.
Trapped air, as you know, kills the fish eventually, and so I thought that that might be one way to help the fish, as he WAS netted out and could've puffed air.
It's good that you may have shed light on the behaviour of this fish, as he may not have trapped air, but I don't think anyone's intent is to torment the fish or play fast and loose with spurious methods of treatment.
Also, shaking is a lot different to jiggling about, which is what I suggested...I'd never suggest shaking. You could have corrected us in a more diplomatic manner.
Pami.
need help with t. suvatti
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Ok he looks much better. I was thinking of what to do and i am sure that he naver had air in his tummy he swimms fine now he can go up and down and all around. I think the problem was that the pH is too low, and my acclimation process sucked, am not sure what my lfs pH is, but its probably not as low.
PUFFERPUNK-----ive never heard anything of ro water not being sufficient to house fish. To me that makes no sense. at my store we use 100% RO (no blackwater extract or any additives) to hold our discus and wow are they healthy, eagerly chowing food at every feeding. From what ive read the T. suvatii and miurus are both fine in a neutral pH around seven. so pufferpunk... can you explain to me your reasoning? im really curious.
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RTR
- Mentor
- Posts: 6155
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 4:39 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): East Coast, USA
The Discus is an Amazonian blackwater fish, and as such does inhabit water which may have a very low DH during parts of the year, but does not always do so. Discus have been collected from waters with a DH ranging 0-12, and pH ranging from 5-8. They are not, repeat not obligate ultra-soft water fish. Discus prefer soft acid water for breeding (rainy season, with tannins/tannic acids/humic acids from forest liter/humus), and do need low Ca++/Mg++ for breeding. They will however grow faster and healthier if the water is a bit harder and the ph/DH/KH higher.
High quality RO water has no mineral content, no buffering, and absolutely astronomicly low osmolarity, meaning for the fish that their kidneys and gill must expend massive amounts of metabolic energy just to keep the fish's blood and tissues in homeostasis. If you and your store believe that these fish require high-resistance RO to live, I think that you may want to bit a bit more study of fish physiology than you can get from a post on a forum.
T. suvattii is not Amazonion, but from the Mekong, quite a different river system running from Tibet through China and out through SE Asia. Why would anyone assume that the fish from there require Amazon-type blackwater? It is my understanding that this fish prefers higher pH (7.5 and above) and correspondingly harder water. This is not a blackwater fish.
High quality RO water has no mineral content, no buffering, and absolutely astronomicly low osmolarity, meaning for the fish that their kidneys and gill must expend massive amounts of metabolic energy just to keep the fish's blood and tissues in homeostasis. If you and your store believe that these fish require high-resistance RO to live, I think that you may want to bit a bit more study of fish physiology than you can get from a post on a forum.
T. suvattii is not Amazonion, but from the Mekong, quite a different river system running from Tibet through China and out through SE Asia. Why would anyone assume that the fish from there require Amazon-type blackwater? It is my understanding that this fish prefers higher pH (7.5 and above) and correspondingly harder water. This is not a blackwater fish.
Where's the fish? - Neptune
RTR thanks for ur help, but why doesn't pufferlist.com say that t. suvattii prefers harder water on their website it says pH 6.8-7.6
fish base doesn't even give a pH
But with this all said i guess i should of came here first to ask a few questions
fish base doesn't even give a pH
But with this all said i guess i should of came here first to ask a few questions
over 337gallons of tanks i take care of
20gallon t. suvattii tank
20gallon t. suvattii tank
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RTR
- Mentor
- Posts: 6155
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 4:39 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): East Coast, USA
Fishbase only logs in what has been published in the scientific lit. If no one did water parameters at the collection sites, it is not there. That is not unusual. Having the parameters is more unusual.
The Puffer List compliles what members reported as having worked for them with the fish under discussion. The whole puffer family is highly adaptable, a consequence of being second division fish and not primary FW fish. But we all know that they they can survive some things for extended periods, even though those may not be the best for them. When in doubt, and when willing to do water mods, match native waters.
BTW, Ebert's water parameters are from his own observations in the wild, so I have much confidence in them. He blocks them out in broad ranges, but if it is coded by him as hard alkaline, I'd go with that for my fish - at least somewhere within the range he gives (which is as I said, quite broad).
The Puffer List compliles what members reported as having worked for them with the fish under discussion. The whole puffer family is highly adaptable, a consequence of being second division fish and not primary FW fish. But we all know that they they can survive some things for extended periods, even though those may not be the best for them. When in doubt, and when willing to do water mods, match native waters.
BTW, Ebert's water parameters are from his own observations in the wild, so I have much confidence in them. He blocks them out in broad ranges, but if it is coded by him as hard alkaline, I'd go with that for my fish - at least somewhere within the range he gives (which is as I said, quite broad).
Where's the fish? - Neptune