Baileyi and Nefastus feeding questions

[messy_da_legend]

Just hadd a look at this thread here ( http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/vie ... &&start=15 )

I am now confused as to what to feed my baileyi and nefastus. They are both reported to be piscivores, yet cannot be fed life food for fear of being called immoral by this forums members. The baileyi or the nefastus, both after veing starved, WILL NOT take frozen fish.

So far the baileyi has only been getting prawns and live shrimp (not too nutritious I'd imagine) and the nefastus getting bloodworm. These are the only foods they accept apart from one trial with a very well fed guppy with the baileyi (which he seemed to enjoy).

So, as neither will take prepared fishy foods, am I then unable to provide them with a natural diet, or in this circumstance is it acceptable to feed feeder fish to enhance the diet?

Not meaning to start an arguament, just looking for opinions

[epine]

Read this thread
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/vie ... php?t=7923

I used to feed my mirus live rosey reds. If you're not squirmish then go for it. But any live foods, can possibly run the risk of bacteria, and diseases. In the end, its good to wane them to more nutritional foods.

[Corvus]

Since the baileyi eats prawns he may also be trained to eat e.g. mussel flesh, frozen fish and squid to get a more varied diet.

bloodworms IMO are not a very good food for the nefastus, especially if they are the only food. If you want to get it started to eat frozen fish you can use the methods from Rockers feeding article in the library.

If you, what I see is unpopular and recommended against here, wish to use feeders, breed your own and go for livebearers.

So far I know of no puffer that needed to be fed live fish and could not be trained to frozen food. Other fish groups are much harder to get trained or rather starve than touching something dead. I personally don't like it, but I prefer to loose some guppies, than a rare wild caught moray.

[messy_da_legend]

The way I see it, why is it any different from feeding them live shrimp or snails, or even feeding crickets to reptiles?? Still live animals being fed there.

The baileyi used to take mussels and silversides, but quickly refused them after a while. Now only takes prawns.

Ill try again with the nefastus to take silversides though

[Corvus]

I think you are right about feeding live shrimps or snails, but I don't feel good when doing so either (at least with crayfish).

What makes a difference is that not all fish should be used as feeders, for they contain toxins or specific unhealthy enzymes. barbs are not very good in general AFAIK.

[Boxermom]

No, you won't be considered immoral for feeding your puffers feeders, not if you do it right. Treat the feeders humanely. We recognize that some puffers are piscavores, but not all of them are. Baileyis are. Mine occasionally get feeders to stimulate their hunting drive and as a treat, but only occasionally. Feeders aren't a good steady diet. And if you use feeders, you should either raise them yourself or quarantine for 2-4 weeks if you purchase them from the store or someone else. Livebearers are healthiest, rosy red minnows, goldfish, etc., are not, and they should be gut-loaded with veggies and other healthy food.

However, I have yet to find the puffer that can't be trained to eat dead foods, and they should be for their health and well-being. When you say they have been starved, how long were they starved for, how often are you feeding them, and how big are they? Mine are about 4" long, eat twice a week and can go a couple of weeks without eating and be fine. Most fish can.

It took me 3 weeks to train my palembang to eat dead foods, he was only eating live fish until I got him. I offered him frozen shrimp daily, but if he didn't eat it, he didn't get anything. Putting it on a string didn't work for him but dangling it with long tweezers did eventually work, once he got hungry enough and I gently banged him in the nose with it. He took a defensive bite, figured out it was tasty food, and its never been a problem since then.

Its definitely worth it in the long run to train them to eat dead food.

[messy_da_legend]

When I starved him it was for just over 2 weeks after I got him (he only starved cause he didnt like anything I gave him really and got a bit skinny so I gave him a guppy which he loved. He had only ever eaten live as the shop fed him gut loaded shrimp every other day or so for the months he was there.

Do we know exactly what they would eat at home in the Mekong? Like the fish/mollusc sp they would actually be preying on in the wild?

Mine seems fine on dead prawns every couple of days and live shrimp occasionally. He is about the same size as yours BM. I keep trying frozen fish on fishing line in the current but he ignores anything like that really.

He used to eat dead fish and mussels as I said, but then went off them for some reason and I just want him to take some fish as its obviously in the natural diet.

I was also told by the lfs that feeders were illegal but I thought that was just for shops etc?

[Boxermom]

I forgot you were in the UK. Yes, I believe feeder fish are illegal in the UK. Of course you could breed your own, unless they go house to house checking to see if people are using feeders.

If he is eating dead prawns, or anything else aside from live feeder fish, its likely he can be trained to eat other dead foods. A varied diet is best. They're just stubborn and spoiled, and like what they are used to. I have to go through the same routine with my palembang each time I try to introduce a new food to him. Starve, bang him in the face, then once he tastes it, he knows its food. The baileyis eat anything at all once it hits the water.

[Rocker]

The article I have written explains patience. I have never yet failed to feed 'dead' foods to any puffer and that includes the 200 odd fry.
I agree with Corvus and BM they can be trained with patience. One thing I am finding with the baileyi is that mine digest food s alot slower than any other pufffer.
He went a good 6 weeks with feeding once and my rountine has now been cut back to feeding once a week. Even that I feel is too much sometimes. I think the frequency for the baileyi feeding should be no more than once a week.JMO

[messy_da_legend]

Once a week? I might try that and see... How much and what do you actually give yours per feed then, and how big is yours?

[Rocker]

He is about four inch in body and 6 inch total length.Slightly less maybe.

One small mussel or half a large one.
or a couple of regular prawns
or
a small piece of king prawn about half an inch wide..

or 2 or 3 krill

or 2 or 3 pieces of cockle meat.

[Boxermom]

Mine gets a half of a large piece of frozen shell-on shrimp, three small mussels (meat only, haven't gotten the ones in the shell yet, I bought the wrong ones), half a dozen smallish snails, or one and a half silversides. I feed them once every 3 days or so (feed on day one, skip three days, then feed again on day four).