Leaky tank? Leaky hood? Help me and my DPs . . .

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:32 pm

Hey all!

I'm not having good luck. My 30 gallon acrylic tank is now sitting on a thin layer of water. I"m 90% sure it's been leaking down the back from the Eclipse 3 hood. But I'm 10% not sure -- maybe its a real crack or leak.

I'm going to have to move 6 DPs and 2 otos to a 12 gallon tank for the next day or so and hope they don't kill eachother while I figure it out.

If it is the hood, how can I prevent the water from going between it and the side of the tank? WHen I touch around the rim, my and gets wet, and I think it's dripping onto the stand (wood) and some of it is going under the stand -- I've lost about an inch of water over the past few days. UGH!

Also, should I ditch the hood, get a new small hood and a HOB filter system instead?

Any advice appreciated!

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:35 pm

That sounds like a lot of water to lose by evaporation, but maybe water is condensing on your hood and dripping out the back? Is the tank perfectly level, or does it slope towards the back?

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:38 pm

It looks perfectly level to my eye. I'd have to find a level to make sure.

I'm just wondering -- if I take out a bunch of water, dry it all down and put a rubber mat under it, well, do I need to mvoe the fish, or should I just let them swim in 2-3 inches of water while I move everything around? I'll save most of the water in a 18 gallon rubermaid thing I have so hopefully it won't crash . . .

Thanks -- Cooper

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:45 pm

You can use the waterline in the tank as a level... Is it parallel to the rim of the tank from all sides?

I'm not at all familiar with eclipse hoods, so I don't know what else to suggest. Putting a rubber mat under the tank, if I understand you correctly, doesn't offer much of a solution--how often would you have to empty the mat?

Are you still losing water? How long has this been a problem?

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:50 pm

the waterline slops a degree from left to right, but back to front, completely level.

And you are right -- I'm going to have to find a way to seal the top -- but a ruber matt under it would keep water from going under it -- and therefore if it drips from the back, I can wipe it off without worying about it getting under and making the wood rot. Right?

And would the fish be OK for a little while in 3 inches of water? I don't want to totally stress them out -- and I'm sure moving them to the 12 gallon would probably be more harmful than leaving them in shallow water. I don't know. . . . . UGH! If I can get this straightened out, I'm fine. Days like this make me want to plastic bag everything and take it all back to the aquarium store . . . but only for a few minutes.

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:50 pm

Okay now that I've read up on the hood I see how it could be a real PITA...

Can you justify the expense of a glass top, new lighting fixture and HOB filter? It's tough to go wrong with that... You'd want to transfer the biomedia when you switch filters.

Cooper wrote: And would the fish be OK for a little while in 3 inches of water? I don't want to totally stress them out -- and I'm sure moving them to the 12 gallon would probably be more harmful than leaving them in shallow water.

6 to one, half dozen to the other... They'll be okay in 3 inches of water for a little while. A smooth transfer to the temp tank using a cup so they are always in water would be about as stressful.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:52 pm

I was thinking the same thing . . . I'm off to the petstore before it closes and see how much the damage will be. Otherwise, I may just be washing a lot of towels over the next few days/weeks . . .

Thanks! Cooper

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:08 am

I spent $88 I don't really have -- but I think it's worth it. Got a great HOB filter and a hood. The Eclipse Hood went over the top, but the new one fits inside the top in that little ledge around the edge. Therefore, it keeps the water in, and if it condenses on the top, it only drips back into the tank. On the old hood, it would then wick out over the edges and down the back.

So, now I think I've spent about as much on this aquarium, as I would have had I bought everything brand new top of the line in the first place. Live and learn! But at least I have happy DPs.

Later -- Cooper

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:13 am

Congratulations!
You plopped the old media in the back of the new filter, right?

I'm a big fan of all-glass tops and wouldn't consider anything but for all my tanks. There's added viewability and no limitation on how you light the tank. Which is good if you suffer from chronic upgrade syndrome as I do.

Which HOB did you settle on?

Post by **Myaj** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:47 pm

Yes, I hear ya. I have an Eclipse 2 gallon and if the water level is too high, it pulls it out through that ledge around the edge. Its annoying, messy and the filter is a piece of crap.

I'll never even think about buying another Eclipse system...

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:24 pm

My Eclipse 12 is awsome! I've also had a Corner 5 which I liked -- but I always added extra filter floss. The Eclipse 1, 2, & 3 hoods -- good in theory but not as easy/space saving/wonderful in practice.

I got a Marineland Penguine 200 HOB. It's got room for 2 of their filter cartidges or (which I did) I fill it with my own floss, etc. I did put the filter floss from the old hood in the new. I'll monitor the amonia like crazy and if it moves, I will do a water change and I have an emergency/back-up Bio Spira in the fridge.

One thing I do like about the Eclipse systems & hoods -- intake is on the back bottom left, and the water falls back in at the top right towards the front. With my HOB I fear the same water is getting filtered over and over again in a loop and the water way to the right isn't getting touched. Am I crazy? Do they make some bendy tube thing I can use to put the intake across the tank?

Also, the Eclipse 3 Hood had 2 jets returning the water and a filter rate of 250 gph. The new one has one wide "waterfall" and only filters at 200 gph. I think the DPs are happier with less current.

-- Cooper

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:42 pm

Cooper wrote:With my HOB I fear the same water is getting filtered over and over again in a loop and the water way to the right isn't getting touched. Am I crazy? Do they make some bendy tube thing I can use to put the intake across the tank?

Well, you're not wrong, but that doesn't mean you're not crazy!

The difference in flow dynamics is not significant for biofiltration, all other things being equal. Keep in mind that ammonia and nitrite are dispersed evenly throughout the water column at all times and you'll understand why. You're right about water movement though, it's bound to be less uniform. Still, the water way to the right will be pulled over to to the intake, just less rapidly.

I like the Bio Wheels for non-planted tanks as they offer very efficient wet/dry filtration. Don't worry about rinsing the biowheel, but do give the cartridge(s) a good shake in the old tank water with each water change. Replace or bleach-soak the cartridge when water continues to pour out over the intake tube (bypassing the filter media) even after a thorough rinsing, as the carts do eventually clog up -- usually after several months.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:23 pm

Why does everyone say no bio-wheel on planted tanks? I have 2 live plants that I've had for some time and they seem to be thriving -- though 2 plants is not really a "Planted" tank.

Just curious -- Cooper

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:37 pm

Biowheels, and all wet/dry filtration for that matter, act on lots of air-water contact, or surface disruption. At the same time, all gas exchange between water and the atmosphere occurs at the surface. The greater the surface disruption, the greater the gas exhange.

Air stones, bubblers, and HOB filters operate on this principle--by violently breaking the surface of the water, CO2 is "blown off" and O2 is added to the water, until equilibrium levels are met. This is what is meant by gas exchange.

Remember from high school biology, plants use CO2 to metabolize their food. "Planted tanks", by most definitions, involve high-intensity lighting (2+ WPG) and CO2 supplementation, either by the fermentation method or by way of a pressurized tank. (And also a large quantity of plants and fertilizer doses, but that is not relevant to this discussion.) For the sake of efficiency, when you are injecting CO2 into a tank you want to minimize the surface disruption from filters or powerheads in order to keep the CO2 in the water, where the plants will readily use it. Too much disruption and all your CO2 gets released into the atmosphere.

That's why bio-wheels do not mix with planted tanks. I would say the same for HOB filters in general... It's not impossible to get higher than trace CO2 levels in a small tank running on an HOB filter, but that kind of setup is wildly inefficient. Most planted tanks use cannister filters with the spraybar / output hose well below the surface of the water to minimize disruption.

hope that makes sense...

Post by **Myaj** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:27 am

Yep, what Bred said.

For less demanding plants like crypts and the javas, using a biowheel or powerfilter doesn't do too much harm (though its not the greatest), but I wouldn't try it with demanding plants. I use Aqua Clear power filters on nearly all my tanks, which are all planted, with no issues, but I am not trying to grow plants that fall into the "difficult" catagory. I stick to javas, crypts, anubias, hygro, etc... well, even my hygro shows a definate preference to having some CO2 in the water..

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Leaky tank? Leaky hood? Help me and my DPs . . .

Leaky tank? Leaky hood? Help me and my DPs . . .