Spastic GSP :( - RIP Frosty

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1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

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We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

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One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Phaedrus
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Spastic GSP :( - RIP Frosty

Post by Phaedrus »

Something is wrong with my GSP. In the past month or so he's been acting a little strange. For about 3 weeks or so he was very fearful and would hide almost all the time. And he'd hide in the weirdest places that I've never seen him hang out in before. Like vertically hugging the inside of his root ornament, or snuggled in the fake plants. Normally he'd be pacing the front of the tank begging if I was in the room.

Some days he wasn't interested in food at all either, but he never went more than 2 or 3 days without eating something. More recently he's been better and will come when I open the hood. He's also been swimming around more lately.

His colouration is good when he's out and about, but very dark and pale when he's hiding. Which is normal. Its the frequency of hiding that is weird.

The worst part though is that every once in a while he'll go utterly spastic in his tank. Thrashing and dashing about very violently. He's suffered a few cosmetic scrapes, and I've added melafix and they seem to be healing, but everyday he has some new ones. I'm worried that he'll dash his head against the hood glass and stun himself or fly out the tank somehow. He also gets wedged behind the filter tubes sometimes and I have to wiggle the tube to free him. After the thrashing he will pace the tank as if on edge, and will eventually settle to the bottom breathing very heavily for a while. Then he's mostly back to normal.

I have no idea what set him off. It was very sudden that it started happening. He's never done anything like this before in the year plus that I've had him. I'm basically at a loss. :(

Details:

55g
0-0-10
1.018 SG
varied diet

any ideas?
Last edited by Phaedrus on Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Boxermom
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Post by Boxermom »

Did you do any redecorating or anything to his tank? Any changes in routine? Mine gets really wigged out whenever his routine changes or I rearrange things. He pouts for a couple of weeks, sometimes even gets a case of cloudy eye, before returning to normal.
Tina

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Post by Peregrine »

Does it react differently to changes in light conditions...I mean do the episodes occur just after the lights are turned out?
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Post by Phaedrus »

I haven't rearranged anything recently.

Yes, lighting might have something to do with it, though, it never used to. I'm a night owl and his tank is in the same room as my office. Before, when his lights automatically turned off, he would normally just settle into his corner and rest out of sight. But since he's been acting strangely he would start to pace and eventually go spastic. But once a realized it, I kept his light on when I was in the room at night. He still goes spastic though, even though his light is still on.

Sometimes you'll hear splashes from his room even when I'm not in there. So I'm not sure if it's my presence that spooks him or what.

From the side of his tank he can watch out the door and into the hallway. He used to watch us walk back and forth and beg for food. He's starting to do that again a bit more, but that all stopped when he was being sulky.

If worse comes to worse I could move my office entirely and let him be in his own room (spoiled puffers.. tsk tsk) but I don't know if that would help.
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Post by Peregrine »

I was just wondering if it happened primarily when the room suddenly went dark...or suddenly lit up.

The sudden change of light conditions can be like going blind for a few seconds..and it could be disturbing him...I know mine act fidgity when the tank light goes on, or the room lights go off.

I have been trying to lowering the lights in stages...tank light out..wait 5 min..room light out...wait 5 min...moon lights out

But what you suggest sounds more like a building anxiety..to the point of a panic attack...odd

Any thing change in the room itself in the last year...new computer or light...or something that gives off a sound or vibration that wasnt there before?
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Post by Phaedrus »

Well, the worst has happened. Yesterday I was home all day due to a blizzard and was able to observe him. His spasms had gotten much worse. It almost seems like he was having a seizure the way he lost total control of himself. His spine had also become very bent when this happened. To the point that he would spin in tight circles because his tail is bent strongly to one side.

There were a few points when I thought he was dead because he would slam hard straight into the ground and would seem to suck up some of the sand from huffing and puffing so hard. He would then slow down and completely lose his colour to the point of having very pale grey spots and nearly white skin and a black belly. No stimulus could rouse him. A few minutes later colour would return and he would freak out again.

I wasn't able to watch him continuously, and a few times when I came back to check on him he was wedged behind things, and even once he had managed to leap out of the tank through a very small opening. He was laying on the hood though and was quickly back in the water where he continued to freak out again.

The last time I came in to check on him he had managed to wedge himself against the heater and had suffered a burn down his side. He was completely hunched over this and couldn't swim properly anymore. It was at this point that I made the very difficult decision to euthanize him. I gently scooped him up and placed him in a dish and put him in the freezer. I wish I had had some clove oil to put him to sleep.

I don't know what I'm going to do with his body now. The ground is frozen solid and covered in snow, and I don't think I have the heart to flush him.

I estimate his age to be in the 3 to 5 year range, because I had him for 1 1/2 years and he was already rather large when I got him. His growth had been extremely slow, only growing less than an inch in the time I've had him. To his credit, he had an appetite right up until the end and devoured the largest snail I had available.

He will be greatly missed. :rip:

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Post by Boxermom »

Poor little guy, I'm sorry.
Tina

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Post by Pufferpunk »

Since none of us here are ichthyologists (as far as I know) there are probably countless diseases & defects in fish that we aren't aware of. Fishy epelipsy? Could be such a thing, I don't know. Must have been painful to watch... :(

My Hubby's 20 year old lovebird, Fatbob (whom he had known since he was just an egg), died on Christmas day. We kept him in a silk-lined box in the freezer, so we could bury him under a nice tree, in the spring.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Post by Hilly »

Sorry for your loss Phaedrus :rip:
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Post by Woland »

That sucks...
IMO you did the right thing putting him to sleep in the freezer.
His bodily functions will have faded silently away.
Regards

Woland
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Post by bonnie3188 »

Oh im sorry to hear about your loss. Its a time that everybody dreads. I agree that you did the right thing with the freezer, ive had to do that once before. I think its just too traumatic for the fish, yourself and other tankmates to watch it in so much distress.

When one of my favourite fish died, i buried her at the beach, i couldnt flush her down the toilet. People thought i was crazy but sometimes you really bond with your fish.
-Bonnie
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Post by Phaedrus »

It was very troubling watching him for the past month or so. He hadn't been himself. Either sulking, or frantically bashing around.

Pretty soon I'm going to have to decide what I want to do with the tank. Either tear it down completely and sterilize it and start from scratch, or move something else into it before the bacteria die off, or feed the bacteria with ammonia until I can decide what to do.

I was thinking of getting maybe 4 F8s and lowering the SG to 1.008. I don't think I'd want to go with anything high-end brackish or marine again soon. The other alternative would be to convert it to a planted community tank or dwarf puffer jungle, but I think that may be just as time and money consuming as a marine setup.

At the moment there are no puffers in my life now that both Prof Peabody and Frosty have passed on, and you know what they say, once you go puffer, you can never go back.

Thanks for the kind words. :smitten:
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Post by JustinPSmith »

Im sorry for your loss. I understand how hard it can be, I get very attached to my fish too. But I agree that you did the right thing...
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Post by manutius »

That is awful and I feel for you. May you remember the good times and rest safe in the knowledge you did the best thing. Some illnesses are beyond our diagnosis and treatment so I think you acted correctly by putting him to sleep
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Peregrine
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Post by Peregrine »

I am sorry to hear about your loss, you definately did the right thing letting him go gently into the night. I hope to hear that you carried on with the hobby, and puffers in particular. I think the idea of going in a slightly different direction is a great one. F8's are great...and from my own recent experience with FW planted tanks...they are a whole new challenge...frustrating, yet a riot when things start to click and balance. (definately a sense of accomplishment to be had there)

If you need some one to come fish/plant shopping with ya let me know...
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