Disaster! Help me CSI the sudden death of my GSP. :(

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Phaedrus
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Disaster! Help me CSI the sudden death of my GSP. :(

Post by Phaedrus »

Sorry for the long story... but I need some advice.

Yesterday my GSP named Nelix passed away. It was very sudden and I'm at a loss as to what happened. Here is his story, maybe you can help me find out what happend.

I first got him in April. I had seen some puffers at the LFS and fell in love. I went home and did some research and prepared for my new fishy. I only had a 10 gallon tank on hand, but I planned on moving him into a 55 gallon as soon as money permitted.

In July I finally had enough money to start getting some gear together. My sister had an old 30 gallon tank that I could start off with, and as soon as my father finished building me my custom stand, my GF was going to buy me a 55 gallon tank for my birthday (the end of august). I would then cycle that tank using ammonia and move everything over, established filter and everything.

Everything was going according to plan. The 30 gallon is now completely decorated and has just finished cycling. He was supposed to be moved over to his new home tomorrow, but he never made it.

His water conditions in the 10 gallon were immaculate. (I had just tested last week and tested again yesterday. No change.)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: Trace (a large thriving java fern sucks em up)
SG: 1.008 (He was in 1.004 at the LFS and i only just completed raising him to 1.008 over the months since I got him)
pH: 8.3 and steady

I did a 10% water change with aged water every other day or so. The filter on the 10 gallon was a whisper rated to 15 gallons.

The only other occupant in the tank was a large female Amano shrimp and a Java fern. There were caves and rocks to hide in and the whisper created a current he liked to swim in.

His diet consisted of frozen blood worms, frozen brine shrimp, live snails, and small pieces of freeze dried jumbo shrimp as a treat. He ate vigourously, had brilliant colour, and would always swim at the front of the tank when i came by to watch.

But then a couple days ago he started to act strange. He would hide more often than usual and wouldn't swim madly at the front of the tank begging for food like normal. But he would still eat, and his colour was still good. So I thought he might just be moody.

Then the day before yesterday he would just lay on a java fern leaf all darkened. He would brighten up when i approached, but he wouldn't swim madly begging for food. When he did swim around it was kind of listlessly and aimlessly. Not like the patrol he usually does. That night I offered him a few snails, but he ignored them. The next morning the snails were gone and there were shell remains, so I know he ate them.

Then yesterday before i left for work he was laying on the same java fern leaf breathing very hard and looking very dark. He didn't brighten up when I came by and didn't move. When I got home from work he was dead. :( I was devestated. The day before the big move and the star of the show passes on.

I tested the water again yesterday and there is no change from a week ago. His poop was never stringy and he never had a caved in belly, even before he died. There were no changes to his water except partial changes.

What should have I done? I was worried as soon as he started acting strange, but didn't see any tell tale signs. It was only yesterday that his colour didn't return when I approached and he ate up until the end.

Thanks for your time if you read this, and thanks for any answers you can provide. I'll answer any questions I didn't answer in my post.
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Post by Pamela »

Where do you get the snails from? Do you breed them yourself or are they harvested from the lfs?
Sorry for your loss....but I'm thinking a sudden infection from a dodgy snail. Poor little guy.
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Post by Phaedrus »

I breed the snails myself. Ramshorns and apple snails. I hope that's not what got em.
K4tsujink3n
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Post by K4tsujink3n »

Hmmm ... sounds like the snails should have been okay ...
I'm guessing you didn't notice any respiratory abnormalities, otherwise you probably would've mentioned such ... but did you see anything like heavy, fast, or generally labored breathing?

What's the chance of water contamination?
Did you recently have pesticides sprayed in your home?
Did anyone spray any air freshner in the same room as the tank?


How long was he in the 30 gallon?
What was in the 30 gallon before him, and how was the 30 gallon cleaned before reusing?
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Phaedrus
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Post by Phaedrus »

The day he died I noticed his breathing was fast and laboured.

There have been no air fresheners or pesticides or anything sprayed in my appartment.

If there was a chance of water contamination I don't know what it could be.

He was still in the 10 gallon at the time of his death. He was supposed to have been moved over to the 30 gallon today actually. :(
Eldonko
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Post by Eldonko »

Sorry for your loss. Same thing happened to one of my puffers, his stomach would turn dark and he would just sit there in one spot. He became less and less active every day. I think it was some sort or parasite, because my water conditions were fine. :(
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Post by Pamela »

Yeah...that happened to Freddie the F8 after I'd had him for three weeks.
Sometimes you never know for sure, but if you learn from the experience, you get better as a puffer keeper.
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Post by Phaedrus »

Thanks for the support guys.

I was pretty devestated. I was really excited to move him into his big new home that i had so carefully prepared for him.

I tore apart his old tank yesterday. Dismantled and cleaned everything. I guess I'll move my girlfriends platties in there and try and track down a LFS that has some puffers. That 30 gallon is ready to go, I'd be a shame to waste it.

Which leads me to a question.... Now that the 30 gallon has cycled and there is no ammonia or nitrites and about 35 nitrates, should I continue to add a source of ammonia until I get the puffer?

Also, before I put the new puffer in there, is it ok to do a large water change to remove all the nitrates, as opposed to several smaller ones? (I'm assuming so, but I wanna check)

Thanks again
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Post by Rocker »

Yep, you need to carry on adding ammonia to feed the bacteria the tank now has established.Keep this going until you are ready to purchase your fish. Then do a large water change before you get your puffer.
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