parasite on F8?

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chasey
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parasite on F8?

Post by chasey »

I've had my fully grown (I think...2.5") F8 for about 3 months now and had no health problems with him until now (appears to be happy guy). I do weekly 30% water changes and treat the water every time. I haven't tested the water since so I don't have any water parameters to give (I expect a scolding :oops: ) I've been feeding him brine shrimp, bloodworms and occasionally ghost shrimps and pond snails.
Tonight I noticed he has a circular growth near his tail (not on his fin) that is under his skin. The pattern is like a coiled worm - I can see the outline. He also has a slight bump on the other side of his tail which is not as large but I can see a squigly line (like a small worm). Other than this observation, nothing is unusual about his behaviour - he's still happy and curious and looking for food all the time!

Sorry, I'm no good with technology so don't know how to download pictures. Will try to ask someone, but in the meantime, do any of you experts have any clue???
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chasey
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Post by chasey »

sorry forgot to mention...the parasite/growth is about the size of his eye
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Feathers&Fins
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Post by Feathers&Fins »

If there is a tankmate, it could be a Puffer bite. If no tankmates, someone should be along shortly to help you.
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Pamela
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Post by Pamela »

Are the coils moving - not necessarily while you're watching - but does their position change?
I think that sounds like nematodes, in which case, there's nothing you can do but isolate the fish to stop the parasites spreading, and keep him normally until he gets ill from them, which can be quite a while.
A few months ago a member tried removing worms from his fish - he was very heavily infested - and the fish died during the procedure, as yet we don't have much we can do with nematodes.
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RTR
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Post by RTR »

Agree w/Pamela that there is no treatment for somatic nematodes. The effect on life span is directly dependent on the number of nematodes involved, and you cannot tell that from a single sighting. Fish with small numbers seem to live full spans. Infection seems to be only in the wild, not fish-to-fish in captivity (unlike the situation with gut-dwelling nematodes which transmit easily to other fish in the tank). But it would be best practice to keep that fish as a singleton.
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Pamela
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Post by Pamela »

The only thing I can think of is give him lots of healthy food - vitamin enriched, for example, and some garlic supplements.
The danger is that with subcutaneous worms is that if you manage to kill them with a med, they go off under the skin, which, as you can imagine, will probably kill the fish.
Pami.
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RTR
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Post by RTR »

Pami is spot on again - that is exacty why treatment is impossible. You can kill the parasites, but the dead internal parsites will kill the fish form toxicity.
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chasey
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Post by chasey »

thanks for replying...yes, Pami, tonight I noticed the 'coil' has moved to under his belly. It's still the same size and shape. Will they multiply and take over his body and kill him eventually??? (I can't believe I feel all choked up about this!) What do you mean wait until he gets sick and then treat him? Won't it be too late by then? How can I feed him garlic?
Yes, he has always been the only fish in the tank...
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chasey
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Post by chasey »

has anyone heard of Levamisole Hydrochloride as a treatment for nematodes? I read about this on the net to treat infected fish...it's a sheep dewormer which can be put into the tank water. Appears to work without killing the fish...
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YBeNormal
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Post by YBeNormal »

There's a sticky in the Hospital section about using levamisol as an alternative for discomed.
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RTR
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Post by RTR »

BUT, there is a world of difference between treating nematodes in the gut (intestinal nematodes), and treating nematodes in the body tissues (somatic nematodes).

Delivery of poison to the gut worms means only getting the fish to eat the material. Getting poison to the somatic worms means injection (most of the agents will not cross the gills or the gut), plus most are toxic themselves.

If you kill the gut worms, they die, and are excreted or digested. If you kill the somatic nematodes, they die, autolyse, and the toxins from that kill the fish unless there was only tiny mass of worms in relation to the mass of the fish. And providing that the injected material was not itself toxic.

Read again: There is no satisfactory treatment available for somatic nematodes.

Most fish with only light to moderate infections will live out their life. Some will not. Very heavily infected fish will have difficulty maintaining their weight, and will show multiple or very large subcutaneous lumps which are not positionally stable (i.e., not a tumor or localized infection/swelling, but shift or move).
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chasey
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Post by chasey »

ok thanks...but does anyone know how the nematodes got there and how to prevent it from happening again (or to future puffer). Is this common to puffers (or F8s)?
So basically, I just have to wait and hope for the best??? I think it might be heavily infested since I also notice that his belly has lumps that keep changing shape and size - at first I thought it was the ghost shrimps and snails he ate, but even after the frozen food, it's still misshapen. The visible worms - one on each side of his body - also keep moving but haven't mulitplied.

If (sadly) he dies, do I have to sterilize the tank before I get another puffer? And if so, what is the best way to do this??
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Post by Pufferpunk »

Your puffer came to you from the wild, already infected.

Funny, it's seems to be most common in F8s. Anyone heard of them in other species?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Pamela
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Post by Pamela »

The fish whose owner did the surgery on him was a SAP if I remember right. He def wasn't an F8.
The F8 could live for a good long while yet, if you've only seen two on him, he's not too bad...I've seen pics of fish with loads of worms.
Keep him well fed, garlic supplements, vitamins - fortified foods, that'll help his immune system and extend his life.
Be scrupulous about water changes as well, basically do stuff that'll support his immune system, as it's working hard to cope with the worms and to stop them getting too big.
Don't worry, just do your best for him.
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RTR
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Post by RTR »

My T. mbu had some somatic nematodes. I never saw more than three lumps at any one time, usually fewer or none. It never bothered him or me, and it certainly did not stunt his growth!
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