Brackish restart: setup advice! :)

coldmachineUK · Post by **coldmachineUK** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:22 pm

Well, I finally have my custom tank arriving on Friday afternoon.
Here's the stats and I wondered if people could advice on a suitable occupant!

30" length x 12" depth x 24" height
= 142L, 37G (US), 31G (UK)

I'll be using two internal filters which I may up to three: one of these is the Eheim aquaball suitable for the tank size which I'll be using primarily for mechanical filtration.
I would normally go with an external canister on this size but it's going in my room and the venturi would be too loud (tried and tested before!). I will probably go with three IPFs and start off with the two.

I have crushed coral sand substrate, and will be looking to buy lots of ocean rock (I have a few silk plants, and existing caves etc. too). I also have my tropic marin salt to use.

My question is: should I take the plunge with a GSP, or should I stick to a figure8 (and wouldnt he be awfully small and lonely in there if I did?)

Is there anything else you'd recommend bar an external canister (:P)?

kass · Post by **kass** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:26 pm

You could have more than one F8 and possibly other tank mates, such as bumble bee gobies.

sstimac · Post by **sstimac** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:32 pm

Depends on you. If you want GSP's go buy one and alter the salinity accordingly. If you want F8's go buy two and alter the salinity accordingly. They both involve similar care it would depend on the specific gravity you want to work with.

coldmachineUK · Post by **coldmachineUK** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:30 pm

Well I don't mind about the S.G.
I've heard that multiple puffers in a tank is a bad idea (TM) though? Wouldnt two F8s be asking for trouble? Also, I understand that while some people have kept tankmates like BBGs with F8s/GSPs even for a long period of time there is an inherant risk that the puffer may turn around and decide it's dinnertime...

Thinking of substrates, if anyone has any advice on whether the CaribSea Bahamas Oolite live sand is any good that'd be great!
1. Does this really help in the cycling process?
2. Will it buffer pH, and if so to what level (I don't want it to be too high for the puffers)?

TIA!

sstimac · Post by **sstimac** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:35 pm

It's not uncommon to keep two F8's together so long as they are introduced together. It may also be a good idea to change their surroundings periodically.

I've not used CaribSea's Bahamas Oolite, but I have used their live aragonite and am definitely pleased. As far as CaribSea goes I believe they have quality products and they are reasonably priced. I'd say go for it.

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:43 pm

I'll never buy another Carib Sea product after this: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/vie ... php?t=6526

coldmachineUK · Post by **coldmachineUK** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:52 pm

Crikey, I'm glad they were caught at least but punishment seems pretty weak.

Anyways, thanks for the input/advice. I've gone for some white marine sand (which is very false and unnatural looking) but I'm planning on mixing this with the pale brown crushed coral sand I already have from my LFS. I'm hoping it'll lighten the colour at least. I figured this was a good idea since I now realise I don't need my substrate as a pH buffer after all since the Tropic Marin salt will buffer the pH (and ocean rock I'll be using will too).

Still stuck on the inhabitants side of things though! I did adore my little F8, and put off planning to get another because I miss him so much and don't like the idea of replacing him, but it's been a while now since and I do love them. But, now I have a tank that would accommodate a GSP, I wonder if that's the road to go?

Has anyone got any experience keeping two F8s together? How has aggression been? I've seen two in the LFS nipping at each other (not violently, but enough to make me think 'that's never a good idea') before... :S Can it work? Or is it down to the individual puffers/personality?

Also, a cycling question: I have used fishless cycling methods before (with a malawi FW setup I run), but I have heard that the bacteria involved in a brackish/SW environment in the nitro cycle are different to FW. To fishless cycle I used two market prawns in my other tank. Will this same method work in the brackish setup? I've read the articles on cycling before, and know enough about cycling tanks in FW though thanks, so no advice on that needed

indie · Post by **indie** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:06 pm

i have 2 f8s together and they are fine, but then they are still babies, might all change when they grow up

kjharve · Post by **kjharve** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:32 am

I've also got two F8s with some bumblebee gobies. They were introduced together and I do change their surroundings every month or so. They seem very happy and never bother each other. In fact, if there's any fighting in the tank it's usually the gobies!

coldmachineUK · Post by **coldmachineUK** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:40 am

Thanks for all the replies, ok I think I'm going to go for two figure eights because they are very very cute after all!

I have my equipment arriving sometime early next week, so will get a fishless cycle going once it's all set up. I also have two internal filters to move over from other tanks, and a third I will be using for mechanical filtration. If it all makes as much noise as the venturi off my externals then I might just go buy one of them and a set of earplugs!!!

coldmachineUK · Post by **coldmachineUK** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:03 pm

Ok, more progress (taking nearly as long as my malawi setup, b/c I'm determined to do it right!!!): I've made my own sand mix out of marine white (unnatural looking) sand and crushed coral sand, neither of these are CaribSea products. The result worked well! I have a sand which is going to help buffer pH (the crushed coral) but which is a natural off-white too

Still not decided on occupants yet: I just read a fishbase.org article on the F8 which says not to keep them in brackish, and to keep them alone :S
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Species ... p?id=25175
"Aggressive against conspecifics. Not a brackish water species."
Is (can it even be?) fishbase wrong?! :S
I also read the same on: http://users.macunlimited.net/n.monks/brackfaq.html
I just want the best for whatever occupants I go with, has anyone got any advice?

I also read there was an albino plec (no species name or anything useful, listed on this page: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubW ... abfaqs.htm) suited to brackish, and also orange chromide cichlids. Has anyone ever tried keeping these as tankmates with F8s or a GSP?

kjharve · Post by **kjharve** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:58 pm

A lot of resources say the F8 is a freshwater puffer and they can "survive" in freshwater but require brackish water to thrive. Put it this way though: if you look on the list of forums on this site, under brackish puffers you'll find the F8 as an example. And there's no better knowledge than that derived from experience.

As for keeping them together it does very much depend on the actual puffers. The F8s, as with most puffers, have very different personalities. For every success story you find you'll also find a case where 2 F8s haven't got on.

As long as you keep your eye on them and introduce them together there's no reason why they won't exist peacefully. Especially if your tank is sufficiently large and well decorated as they'll have plenty to do without annoying each other.

coldmachineUK · Post by **coldmachineUK** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:16 pm

Ok, more steady progress! I finally have the tank set up, and aquascaped. Phew! Pictures below: any advice or do you think this is ok? I haven't filled the tank completely yet: it's 2 foot tall, so what I figured was that I could 2/3 fill it with freshwater, and then the remaining 1/3 can be used for me adding saltier water over time to up the S.G., coupled with water changes. This way I can acclimatise my mollies while they're in the tank too.

I used crushed coral sand and a white marine sand mix, for buffering and for a more 'tropical' but natural look. The white on its own was grossly unnatural and the coral sand I had was a dirty brown. The mix seems to have worked ok.

I am moving two black mollies in to the tank from two other tanks I run, and am going to try keeping these with two figure eights.

I also wondered: I know red-tailed black sharks (RTBS) are freshwater, but would they tolerate a 1.005 S.G.? (Eventually...I wouldnt be keeping my F8s at that straight off unless they were in that at the LFS, and would be patient with upping the salinity over a long period to 1.005).
Would they work as a tankmate even?

Photo #1

Photo #2

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:21 pm

No, they wouldn't work as tankmates and wouldn't tolerate the salt. RTBS are extremely aggressive and territorial.

kjharve · Post by **kjharve** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:40 pm

I'm no expert so take my advice as you will but be careful of the plants in the front-left corner of the tank, the ones with the varigated leaves. I had a plant like that when I first set-up my tank and they rotted as soon as salt was added. I later learned they were not true aquatic plants.

If you're sure they're brackish plants then ignore the above, like I say I'm no expert!

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Brackish restart: setup advice! :)

Brackish restart: setup advice! :)