auriglobus modestus/ chonerhinos silus

Martin Hi. · Post by **Martin Hi.** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:13 am

hi at all,
because nearly noone in the german-speaking countries seem to keep this species (or at least they do not write about it in our german forum), i´d like to diskuss this issue with you...
i´ve seen some pics now on your board of fish which i thought would be auriglobus modestus but most of you seem to think that they are chonerhinos silus. while i have checked all the literature now (the few one that i have about this species) it seems to me that the big difference between this two species (that one can see at once! of course there are other differences) is the maximum-size: while a. modestus should grow um to about 11 cm (i think that my big one is even bigger), the c. silus stops at about 8 cm. therefore my question: are all of you puffers that small?
martin

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:23 am

Don't know how long it takes for them to be full grown but I've had both my silus for six months or so and they haven't grown any longer since I got them. They're about 6.5 cm. There's one still in the store that's about 8 cm and has been so for quite some time.

Martin Hi. · Post by **Martin Hi.** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:26 am

hi,
really? my puffers look just the same as yours. they grow very fast in a 240 l-tank. it took about half a year to grow from 1,5 to about 8 cm for one middlesized one. the biggest one should have about 12 cm.
martin

Martin Hi. · Post by **Martin Hi.** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:49 am

...i´m talking about the specie that you can see here:
http://www.aquaristik-kugelfisch.com/fr ... destus.htm
please klick on on of the pictures to see more! the pictures nr. 3-12 show the the fish that are actually in my tank.
martin

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:45 pm

Those appear to be modestus as far as I can tell. Mine are silus. Mine are definitely thinner than any of those and a whole lot more shiny and metallic-looking.

Martin Hi. · Post by **Martin Hi.** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:33 pm

hi,
i saw your pictures and my little ones look just the same as yours. the are a little more shiny. the adults are not as shiny. the bigger they get the fatter they are. but if i look at picures od fresh captured modestus (for example roberts, 1989) they seem to be as thin as all the other auriglobus-species.
therefore it doesn´t seem to mee that modestus are thinner than the other species.
martin

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 pm

I wouldn't judge freshly wild-caught by their size, as food is a little more scarce in the wild than it is in my house. Mine get plenty to eat, believe me.

I was incorrect on their sizes though (I wasn't looking at a ruler, just guestimating, but I'm looking at one now). They aren't as large as I indicated they are. They're both about 3.5 cm long, and about 8mm wide. I checked my records and I've had them almost exactly 4 months (4 months this Sunday). And I can honestly say they haven't grown much, if at all, since then, despite being very well fed with a variety of foods. I know they were at the LFS for at least 3 months before I got them, too. While I'm not there to measure exactly, its a pretty accurate guess that the one still at the store, which has always been a little larger, is no more than 4 cm.

Martin Hi. · Post by **Martin Hi.** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:17 pm

hi tina,

"I wouldn't judge freshly wild-caught by their size, as food is a little more scarce in the wild than it is in my house. Mine get plenty to eat, believe me."

thats exactly what i think. and i do believe you. but your small ones do not look thinner than my juveniles. only my midsized and the adults look that fat. because of that i would also not judge puffers in captivity by their size...
maybe there is really no chance to see differences between this two species than by the maximum size...
i´ve just ordered the main book about this genus (genera) by roberts. maybe that one will help a little... until then i for myself will not be sure at all what species i am keeping.
martin

Martin Hi. · Post by **Martin Hi.** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:37 am

hi at all,
got my text by roberst today. it very complicated. if somebody should be interested, here are the dates:
Roberts, Tyson R. (1982): The southeast asian pufferfish genus Chonerhinos (Tetraodontidae), with descriptions of new species, in: Proceedings of the Califonia academy of sciences, Vol. 43, Nr. 1, pp. 1-16
It is too complicated to explain everithing in here. but i´ll quote on of the most important parts:

"Conerhinos silus is most similar to C.remotus and C.modestus. (...) It [it is meant here: C.silus, by me!] differs from C.modestus in attaining smaller by size (largest specimen examined 82 mm vs. 106 mm); snout more strongly sloping; lips equally projecting, or lower lip variably protruding, frequently much more so than in C.modestus; scales anterior and ventral to pectoral fin with spines prjecting dorsoposteriorly (...) rather than dorsally (...); and caudal peduncle relatively slender, its depth 7,2-8,2 (vs 6,7-7,4). C. silus tends to have fewer dorsal-, anal-, and pectoral-fin rays than C.modestus (...), but the counts are broadly overlapping and of little help in identifiing individual specimens to species." (Roberts 1982, S. 12)

if you saw the figures of the scales on the side of the body you would see that it should be very diffucult to find a difference between thistwo species.
what is the meaning of sloping? i do not really understand that part cause of my bad english. also the part about the lips. anyone an idea?

here is one picture of the modestus made by roberts:

( Roberts, T.R., 1989 The freshwater fishes of Western Borneo (Kalimantan Barat, Indonesia)

unfortunately i could not find pictures of Auriglobus silus in the internet.
martin

The Fisherman · Post by **The Fisherman** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:54 pm

Yeah, don't forget that Auriglobus silus has a more slender and longer caudal peduncle then Auriglobus modestus.

Is the Roberts, T.R you mention the same RTR thats on this forum? Or just coincidence?

I've also wondered if the guy on this forum that goes by the name of TAN is the same guy who discovered the Irrubesco in 1999 I beleive.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:30 am

Would it be completely naive of me to say Silus = metalic green and Modestus = gold/bronze?

Martin Hi. · Post by **Martin Hi.** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:05 am

hi cooper,
i would not call that naive, but it is nowhere written in this text. as i see it juveniles look mor the golden metallic way, adults more greenish-metallic.
martin

Martin Hi. · Post by **Martin Hi.** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:14 am

hi,
could somebody explain me the thing about the caudal peduncle, the lips and the snout? i just do not undersatnd it. looking at the pictures of roberts i do not see any differences...
martin

The Fisherman · Post by **The Fisherman** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:20 pm

Cooper wrote:Would it be completely naive of me to say Silus = metalic green and Modestus = gold/bronze?

My Modestus does have some gold/bronze on him, although not very much. Mostly mettalic green. X.naritus is the truely gold one.

Martin Hi. · Post by **Martin Hi.** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:08 am

hi,
roberts does not write anithing about different colours. x. naritus is even described as looking like very big modestus. a long time people would think x.naritus is a freshwater species cause they thought that they saw juveniles of x.naritus while it was probably a.modestus.
martin

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auriglobus modestus/ chonerhinos silus

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