GSP Emergency! HELP!!

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Read this before posting!!

Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Rakuen
Puffer Fry
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:42 am

GSP Emergency! HELP!!

Post by Rakuen »

I'm somewhat of a newbie when it comes to all the details of PH and everything. I've never really tested the water except for salinity when changing his water... But this time I moved out and needed to move him with me, after all, can't leave my gorgeous puffer behind!!

He's a GSP and I've had him for a good 3 years now. No problems until moving him from my old house to the new one; Same tank, new filter.
I used chlorine remover on the tap water; tap water sat for 2 evenings.

It's a 5 Gallon Elicpse Hax 5 tank; new filter, got cleaned out; I left 2.5 of his original water in there and 2.5 new water.

Stats:

Salinity .14 (it has always been that) (so brackish obviously)
Temp 80-82 F

Well, we got him in the tank after letting the filtration run for a good hour.

I noticed last night that he stuck around the filter quite a bit; he wasn't moving as much and didn't eat. (frozen brine shrimp) He kept near the top of the tank and won't swim very low... he either stays near the filter or pump; sometimes he'll be in the middle but not often. He's normally always near the front of the tank staring at me and he eats well. I noticed a black blotch on the underside of his belly last night too. I figure I'd wait and see if it was just stress and shock from moving him.

Today I noticed he wasn't swimming as much, still staying near the top of the water; dark blotch under his belly.. he looked like he was facing down a lot of the time vertically and his fins aren't moving as much as they should be.. as if he's getting pulled or pushed by the current a bit.. and he would act like he was strafing .. or being pushed/pulled to the side.

Called a pet store, they said bring in a sample of the water so they could test it. Nitrate was in the 200 range. :shock: They gave us "Prime" and said empty 10 drops (2 drops a gallon) and wait 24 hours and check the water again. This is such an emergency though and on the bottle it clearly states in emergencies up to 5 times the normal dose may be used. But since I'm not so good at this and the person who helped me said 10 drops, I stuck to 10. That was 6 hours ago.

Well, I went out and bought a water checker kit with the test strips; since the color's are so near eachother, I cant tell if the nitrate is going down. :( It could be at 160 Nitrate now but I'm not so sure!

Please, I really need help with this; can I add more of the "Prime" to help lower the nitrate levels quicker? I noticed his fins look like they are moving more but he still is sticking near the top mostly at the pump, and he's still at a vertical slant facing downwards.

It's 2 drops for each 4 Liters / 1 US Gallon; and I already put 10 in 6 hours ago.

I don't want to lose him!!
I am an absolute newbie and am using the small chart of the test which shows 200 as the highest.

Thanks so much in advance!!
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jake_vdb
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Re: F-8 Emergency! HELP!!

Post by jake_vdb »

Rakuen wrote:
I don't want to lose him!!

Thanks so much in advance!! :shock:
You only gave us a nitrate reading. We need the ammonia and nitrite readings. Typically ammonia and nitrite are harmful/deadly at even low amounts, while nitrate is only harmful at very high levels. 200 is higher than I have ever heard of (mine is usually around 10). I can't imagine it being that high right after you changed 50% of your water. Are you sure the reading is correct?

Since your tank is so small, I would do a complete water change. Make sure you match the tank salinity and temp before you put the puffer back in there. Also, check your tap water before doing the change. Maybe you have contaminated water.

You mentioned that you bought a brand new filter. Did you use the media that was in your old filter? If not your tank is probably going to go through a complete cycle. Even with daily water changes and the prime, you could still lose your puffer. They are very sensitive to ammonia and nitrite. Try and see if you can find Bio-spira at an LFS. It is the only product that can cycle your tank right away.

I hope your puffer makes it through this, but even if he does you have another big problem. Your tank is way too small for him. He needs an absolute minimum of 15 gallons. I am suprised he was even able to live 3 years in a 5 gallon tank. Poor little guy.
Last edited by jake_vdb on Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:41 am, edited 4 times in total.
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jake_vdb
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Post by jake_vdb »

One other thing. Did you say the salinity is 1.014? That is a bit higher than F8s prefer. If he lives through this, I would recommend lowering it a little bit every week until it's down to 1.005 -- only change it .001 or .002 a week). Make sure you are using marine salt and not aquarium salt.
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Rakuen
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Post by Rakuen »

The reading for Nitrite is 1.0. The alkalinity is between 40-80, looks more like 40. From what the test says the Nitrate is at 160-200, the color tabs are so close I can't tell.

I am using the color test strips. the PH level is 6.8-7.2.

And by media in my old filter, what do you mean exactly?

I've never had any problems like this before when I changed the water.

He's also a GSP, someone told me he was an F-8 once but checking myself I don't think so. Also, the salinity has always been at 1.014.

As soon as I can tomorrow I will pick him up a new tank and Bio-Spira. So your suggesting I move him out completely tonight and change all of the water rather than just 50%? Shall I just ready a new tank instead? What would be the best procedure in this case? I don't want to shock him any more than I already have.
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puffermama
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Post by puffermama »

That is so weird, I thought this was a post about a F8 as well???

A GSP in a 5Gallon tank??? You must be very, very good about water changes to have kept him this long!

I can only say well done so far, but for a GSP you would need a 30 USGallon tank (yesterday preferably)!

The high nitrate is a good sign that there are bacteria there breaking down the ammonia and nitrite but until you have a suitable tank size for him you need to change the water to keep it clean at least once a day!
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jake_vdb
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Post by jake_vdb »

Rakuen wrote: He's also a GSP, someone told me he was an F-8 once but checking myself I don't think so. Also, the salinity has always been at .014.
Then you have an even bigger problem. GSPs grow to about twice the size of F8s. They require a minimum of 30 gallons. Let me give you a short list of what your puffer needs:

29 gallon tank minimum (this is a standard size and you can probably find a new tank in the $30 - $40 range) If you can get a 30 gallon or a 38 gallon tank that would be even better, but IME the 3' tanks are a step up in price. You probably need to get a hood or glass/acrylic cover also. I would recommend getting a flourescent one over an incadescent one, it should only be a little bit more.

If your current filter is rated for 30 gallons or larger, us it. Otherwise buy an Aquaclear 50 or Pengium 200 HOB filter. Either of these online sell for ~$25, but expect to spend more locally. If you can spend more get a filter rated for a larger tank

If your heater is less than 100 watts, you will need to buy a more powerful heater. 100 watts will be fine for a 29 gallon tank. I like visi-therm stealths. The 100 watt version goes for $15-$20 online.

Aragonite gravel/sand. Aragonite buffers your water to keep it in the correct pH range. Expect to pay $20 for a bag. The kind I use is labeled "chichlid sand" it's a white/black mix, but you can get Aragonite gravel in pure white or different colors.

Freshwater bio-spira. I don't know how much this runs, but it should be refrigerated where you buy it. Don't let them talk you into any other cycling product. This is the only one that works.
Last edited by jake_vdb on Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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jake_vdb
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Post by jake_vdb »

Rakuen wrote:The reading for Nitrite is 1.0.

He's also a GSP, someone told me he was an F-8 once but checking myself I don't think so. Also, the salinity has always been at 1.014.
I would be worried about that nitrite. Do at least a 50% water change tonight. Expect to do water changes every day until these numbers go down.

That sg is good for a GSP, no need to lower it.
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Rakuen
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Post by Rakuen »

When I bought him I was told he was an F8; after looking at pics he looks more like a GSP or a Spotted Congo Puffer since their markings are the same. I was told he wouldn't grow very big and I'm no expert at any of it unfortunately.

I'm sorry if I'm confusing any of you; perhaps my panic about helping him is only making it worse; for now I would stick to the F8 though he looks more like the Congo.

So if I have a F8 I'm going to need a 15gal tank. I plan to do this tomorrow as I'm having trouble finding any 24 hour stores. And I will pick up Bio-Spira and your gravel suggestions immediately.

For now though, is there anything I can do such as add more Prime to see if I can lower the levels? And how would I go about 50& water change... I know I've done it before, but I want to do it more right.

Grab tap water, use the chlorine remover, set it out for how long would you say.. ?? Then I need to add it back into the tank... how long shall I let it set for before adding my puffer back in? An hour, two hours?
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jake_vdb
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Post by jake_vdb »

Rakuen wrote:I'm sorry if I'm confusing any of you; perhaps my panic about helping him is only making it worse; for now I would stick to the F8 though he looks more like the Congo.
If he looks like a Congo. I am almost sure it is a GSP. GSPs are very common (sold at walmart, etc. with mis-information given about them)

Trust us when we tell you to get a larger tank. You would probably spend less than $50 difference for the smaller tank, which would still be inadequate for your GSP. See if you can post a picture of him so we can confirm which puffer you have. If not assume you have a GSP. Worst case -- if it turns out to be an F8 and you have a 29 gallon tank, you can go buy another F8 as you tank will be the right size for 2.
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jake_vdb
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Post by jake_vdb »

Rakuen wrote: Grab tap water, use the chlorine remover, set it out for how long would you say.. ?? Then I need to add it back into the tank... how long shall I let it set for before adding my puffer back in? An hour, two hours?
Try and match the temp as closely as possible. Having an extra heater/themometer on hand can help with this, otherwise just do the best you can. Dechlorinate your tap water with the prime. Mix the salt in to the correct sg. If you have an air pump/air stone, or a powerhead, it's a good idea to airate the water.
Use a gravel vac to remove half the water. Then add the new water slowly. Just slowly pour a gallon every few minutes, making sure the temp isn't changing too much.

You don't need to let it sit. I just stir/airate until the salt is dissolved.
Last edited by jake_vdb on Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rakuen
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Post by Rakuen »

Here is a good pic I just took


Image
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Rakuen
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Post by Rakuen »

Unfortunately I don't have a gravel vac to remove it with, any other suggestions?

About how many drops of prime do you suggest for the water?
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jake_vdb
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Post by jake_vdb »

Rakuen wrote:Unfortunately I don't have a gravel vac to remove it with, any other suggestions?

About how many drops of prime do you suggest for the water?
Get a gravel vac, they are cheap. Just a hose with a plastic tube attached. Shouldn't be much more than $5. If you don't have one, just use a bowl/bucket to remove water (bail it out)

I just use the standard 2 drops per gallon, but if I were you I would double it to detoxify the ammonia/nitrite (4 drops per gallon).
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jake_vdb
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Post by jake_vdb »

Rakuen wrote:Here is a good pic I just took
Looks like you have a GSP to me. That is no F8.

I'm off to bed for the night. Good luck.
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Rakuen
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Post by Rakuen »

Thank you very much for everything, I'll let you know how this goes, I appreciate all your time and effort to help me and I'm going to get my GSP (bad bad pet store info grrrr) a much nicer and bigger tank.
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