Advice needed for ich treatment
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Just an update...
The four week period went down great. The fish got along just fine in the 40 breeder.
The ich seemed to dissappear completely and I was really happy. They went back in the display tank on sept 23 after three days of raising the SG back to 1.023.
Twenty days later I see some white spots on the puffer and the Tusk is scratching a bit from time to time. No spots on him...yet.
I just got the sump and my new NW-200 up and running so the display tank will have good water from now on but it wasn't GREAT when they went in.
I wonder if I just screwed it all up when I put them back in the main tank. I also had a huge brainfart and added a big(24 inches) snowflake moray eel that my buddy donated to me. It was either me or the LFS so I took it. Kinda stupid I know but I really like them and have read they work well in this kind of tank.
This really upset the puffer and he had the worst night of his life for one night...Lots of splashing and everytime he settled down for some rest this HUGE snake would brush by him. I'd have been way upset too. I told him how sorry I was!
The next morning I got out that big snake and because they wouldn't give me store credit I traded it in with a very small snowflake(width of pencil) The fish kept a very close eye on him at first(officer tusk wouldn't let him alone, staying two inches away at all times, but never bit him) and now they don't even care as the moray is out of sight mostly and not a threat anyway.
Is a snowflake moray eel a bad idea to anyone reading this? Do you keep one with your puffer? I realize that some moray eels are natural predators but from what I've read the snowflake is different and has blunt teeth specially designed for grinding invert shells etc. Not a fish eater with needle teeth. The tank is absolutely harmonious without the eel. I'm kinda kicking myself for not being able to say no but I'm hoping it works out.
I understand that the new ich COULD be because of the stress(the first morning I came out and my puffer was FULLY puffed up. Never seen him like that. About the size of a volleyball) but I swear I saw signs of ich BEFORE the addition of the eel.
Currently I'm not going to worry about it and just see how it goes. If I have to do it all again I will. I'm leaving for two weeks tomorrow so I'll just do a 50% waterchange today and hope for the best.(yes I have someone coming to feed)
Thanks again for everyone's help.
The four week period went down great. The fish got along just fine in the 40 breeder.
The ich seemed to dissappear completely and I was really happy. They went back in the display tank on sept 23 after three days of raising the SG back to 1.023.
Twenty days later I see some white spots on the puffer and the Tusk is scratching a bit from time to time. No spots on him...yet.
I just got the sump and my new NW-200 up and running so the display tank will have good water from now on but it wasn't GREAT when they went in.
I wonder if I just screwed it all up when I put them back in the main tank. I also had a huge brainfart and added a big(24 inches) snowflake moray eel that my buddy donated to me. It was either me or the LFS so I took it. Kinda stupid I know but I really like them and have read they work well in this kind of tank.
This really upset the puffer and he had the worst night of his life for one night...Lots of splashing and everytime he settled down for some rest this HUGE snake would brush by him. I'd have been way upset too. I told him how sorry I was!
The next morning I got out that big snake and because they wouldn't give me store credit I traded it in with a very small snowflake(width of pencil) The fish kept a very close eye on him at first(officer tusk wouldn't let him alone, staying two inches away at all times, but never bit him) and now they don't even care as the moray is out of sight mostly and not a threat anyway.
Is a snowflake moray eel a bad idea to anyone reading this? Do you keep one with your puffer? I realize that some moray eels are natural predators but from what I've read the snowflake is different and has blunt teeth specially designed for grinding invert shells etc. Not a fish eater with needle teeth. The tank is absolutely harmonious without the eel. I'm kinda kicking myself for not being able to say no but I'm hoping it works out.
I understand that the new ich COULD be because of the stress(the first morning I came out and my puffer was FULLY puffed up. Never seen him like that. About the size of a volleyball) but I swear I saw signs of ich BEFORE the addition of the eel.
Currently I'm not going to worry about it and just see how it goes. If I have to do it all again I will. I'm leaving for two weeks tomorrow so I'll just do a 50% waterchange today and hope for the best.(yes I have someone coming to feed)
Thanks again for everyone's help.
100gal Seaclear(86 actual gallons... LIARS!)
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
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Puffer Queen
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If the tank was fallow (NO FISH) for at least 6 weeks, the parasites should have died off.
Adding anything that has not been quarantined (i.e. eel, transport water with eel from tank) can introduce parasites, stress of the new eel with the other fish leads to weakened immune systems and leaves the "original" fish vulnerable to the newly introduced parasites.
Adding anything that has not been quarantined (i.e. eel, transport water with eel from tank) can introduce parasites, stress of the new eel with the other fish leads to weakened immune systems and leaves the "original" fish vulnerable to the newly introduced parasites.
Kelly
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Pufferpunk
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6 weeks? I thought it was 4.
PP I expected that one. *sigh* I know I know. But at least know that I am a fully committed owner and will do whatever I have to in order to keep my fish healthy. Including another 6 weeks of hospital hypo.
The big eel was from my friends tank with no ich, but the little one wasn't.
Anyway I was just looking very closely at my puff. They aren't white spots so much as scars from before. The fins aren't perfect. Like I said I'll keep a close eye on things but the tank is DONE DONE DONE as far as inhabitants and this will not happen again.
The snowflake is really nice and will be great growing up with all these guys. The problem initially was I put a full grown(almost) eel in with some juvy fish. Now things are more proportionate.
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/eelcar ... akeeel.htm
Don't give up on me! I'm doing well for my first SW tank I think. The skimmer is running great and pulling some nasty stuff.
The hypo worked great, the only thing I worried about was the climb in Ph from 7.6(hospital) to the 8.2(display) when they went in. Maybe this was the cause?
PP I expected that one. *sigh* I know I know. But at least know that I am a fully committed owner and will do whatever I have to in order to keep my fish healthy. Including another 6 weeks of hospital hypo.
The big eel was from my friends tank with no ich, but the little one wasn't.Anyway I was just looking very closely at my puff. They aren't white spots so much as scars from before. The fins aren't perfect. Like I said I'll keep a close eye on things but the tank is DONE DONE DONE as far as inhabitants and this will not happen again.
The snowflake is really nice and will be great growing up with all these guys. The problem initially was I put a full grown(almost) eel in with some juvy fish. Now things are more proportionate.
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/eelcar ... akeeel.htm
Don't give up on me! I'm doing well for my first SW tank I think. The skimmer is running great and pulling some nasty stuff.
The hypo worked great, the only thing I worried about was the climb in Ph from 7.6(hospital) to the 8.2(display) when they went in. Maybe this was the cause?
100gal Seaclear(86 actual gallons... LIARS!)
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
-
Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32975
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
Sorry for being tough on ya, it's just my way...
Maybe try Melafix to help heal any scaring, but turn off your skimmer.
Maybe try Melafix to help heal any scaring, but turn off your skimmer.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Puffer Queen
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While doing hypo - it is imperative to monitor the water parameters - especially pH. Buffer additions and water changes must be used to keep the pH stable (at least 8.0 or higher).
Just because you don't see spots, doesn't mean that there isn't ich - parasites have 3 life stages and can hide out in gills.
I do not like melafix in saltwater tanks - there have been multiple reports of suffocation.
Best of luck.
Just because you don't see spots, doesn't mean that there isn't ich - parasites have 3 life stages and can hide out in gills.
I do not like melafix in saltwater tanks - there have been multiple reports of suffocation.
Best of luck.
Kelly
oh no worries PP you sound like any one of my friends or family. We talk straight and say what's on our minds around here. 
I've spent the last half hour studying the fins and I just can't decide if it's scarring or light ich stuff. Definately not distinct white spots like it was before the hospital. The tusk scratching from time to time scares me.
I'll revisit the issue when I get back from my trip. I have a good friend stopping by to check the fish, see what he sees. He knows the situation and has a nice reef tank.
Mom is coming by to feed them and make sure the cat is ok while my fiancee and I are having fun and I'm trying to not think of my fish at home. If I say too much about them while on vacation I'll be in real trouble with the lady.
Having her name the fish was the greatest idea I've ever had. Gives her a connection to them.
I've spent the last half hour studying the fins and I just can't decide if it's scarring or light ich stuff. Definately not distinct white spots like it was before the hospital. The tusk scratching from time to time scares me.
I'll revisit the issue when I get back from my trip. I have a good friend stopping by to check the fish, see what he sees. He knows the situation and has a nice reef tank.
Mom is coming by to feed them and make sure the cat is ok while my fiancee and I are having fun and I'm trying to not think of my fish at home. If I say too much about them while on vacation I'll be in real trouble with the lady.
Having her name the fish was the greatest idea I've ever had. Gives her a connection to them.
100gal Seaclear(86 actual gallons... LIARS!)
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
I know you can't be everywhere but I really wish you had answered this thread.Puffer Queen wrote:While doing hypo - it is imperative to monitor the water parameters - especially pH. Buffer additions and water changes must be used to keep the pH stable (at least 8.0 or higher).
Just because you don't see spots, doesn't mean that there isn't ich - parasites have 3 life stages and can hide out in gills.
I do not like melafix in saltwater tanks - there have been multiple reports of suffocation.
Best of luck.
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/vie ... php?t=5276
I was asking this exact question during the treatment but all I heard was that 7.6 stable is better than trying to keep it up at 8.2. I even went and bought this stuff and asked about it twice.
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/vie ... php?t=5210
oh well you live and you learn. I'm doing both.
You guys are a really great help btw and I really appreciate your input. Have a good one.
100gal Seaclear(86 actual gallons... LIARS!)
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
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Puffer Queen
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- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:35 am
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I agree that stability is the key to low stress BUT 7.6 IS TOO LOW and a pH of that low can cause stress and harm the gills.
I definitely can not be everywhere....I have a full time job (non fish related), 3100+ gallons of saltwater, 6 special needs furry dependents, my own forum (http://www.marinedepot.com), a life.......when Jeni asked me to join this forum, I did so reluctantly and "warned" her that I had limited time......I do try to read/post/share when I can .............
I definitely can not be everywhere....I have a full time job (non fish related), 3100+ gallons of saltwater, 6 special needs furry dependents, my own forum (http://www.marinedepot.com), a life.......when Jeni asked me to join this forum, I did so reluctantly and "warned" her that I had limited time......I do try to read/post/share when I can .............
Kelly
PQ you rock. You have helped me greatly. Here are some pics that I just took to prove to you both that everyone is happy. Decide for yourself if they are healthy. I tried to take some gill pics of Carlito. He shows a bit of spots in a couple pics.
100gal Seaclear(86 actual gallons... LIARS!)
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
And for the sake of showing you size of fish in relation to the eel. Here are some more pics.
Right below the puffs mouth is the eel hole. The little white spec you see below the puffs mouth is the eel's white jaw. The puffer is about four inches in front(foreground) so it's a bit deceptive but not much.
Here is the eel hole close up
The tusk is always on the move, hard to capture in group pic.
haha, I love my camera!
Right below the puffs mouth is the eel hole. The little white spec you see below the puffs mouth is the eel's white jaw. The puffer is about four inches in front(foreground) so it's a bit deceptive but not much.
Here is the eel hole close up
The tusk is always on the move, hard to capture in group pic.
haha, I love my camera!
Last edited by Snausy on Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
100gal Seaclear(86 actual gallons... LIARS!)
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
-
Puffer Queen
- Mentor
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:35 am
- Location: Louisville, KY
- Contact:
I do see a few spots that look highly suspicious for ich on the arothron hispidus.
I would treat:
Main display -Fallow for 4 weeks min - I prefer at least 6 weeks as this period is for marine velvet aka amyloodinum ocellatum (longer life cycle than ich)
Treat in separate tank - ALL fish, eels, etc - must monitor water parameters whether you treat with hyposalinity or copper. Stability is the key but extremes are not healthy for the fish.
Best of luck.
I would treat:
Main display -Fallow for 4 weeks min - I prefer at least 6 weeks as this period is for marine velvet aka amyloodinum ocellatum (longer life cycle than ich)
Treat in separate tank - ALL fish, eels, etc - must monitor water parameters whether you treat with hyposalinity or copper. Stability is the key but extremes are not healthy for the fish.
Best of luck.
Kelly
yes I was looking at him again and came to the conclusion that ich still exists or has been re-introduced and I'll have to treat again. No big, I know the routine well at this point. I just hope it's not too bad in two weeks when I get back and start the QT.
PQ thanks again for your time. If it wasn't for you I'd have no clue what to do about it. You've saved my fish!
PQ thanks again for your time. If it wasn't for you I'd have no clue what to do about it. You've saved my fish!
100gal Seaclear(86 actual gallons... LIARS!)
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...
1 Australian Harlequin Tusk, 1 dogface puffer, various damsels...