Colomesus asellus stereo-typing

[Archelon]

Hi

I have just registered and have not searched past threads, so please forgive me if I am going over old ground - let me know if so.

I have recently added 3 juv. colomesus asellus (4-5cm) to a large well-planted and decorated amazon biotope - all water condits are good and the largest fish in the tank are probably some adult Corydoras elegans amongst other corys, ember and cardinal tetras, pair of rams rams, hatchets etc. The two external filter outflows provide excellent circulation.

The puffers have sorted the massive malaysian pond snail infestation they were recruited for and there is still a thriving pop of the snails to keep their beaks down.

They have been in the tank for about 6 weeks, and only recently the largest of the puffers has stopped stereo-typing and now actively forages/behaves 'normally'. The other two are still pacing up and down the glass - all feed well at feeding time - brine shrimp and dry food so far.

Is there are puffer keepers trick to distract these other two puffers and stop them from pacing? I have considered increasing the size of the shoal? any advice out there?

Incidentally, after 26 years of fish keeping, these puffers (my first) are without doubt one of the most engaging species I have ever kept!

All the best

Archelon

[RTR]

If one has gone to expected behavior recently, I doubt that I would make significant changes for another few weeks at least.

But if you want to play (I usually do), I would boost the current along the front glass a bit. Providing a current channel for them gives them effectively an aquatic treadmill for exercise, and this highly active species does seem to "need" something of that nature in captivity. We do talk a lot about broken sight lines in puffer tanks around here, but SAPs are as close as puffers seem to get in captivity to the active schooling fish such as barbs. I always set their tanks with the front 1/3 or more of the tank all but completely open and with significant current. I rarely have seen the common scanning and skimming up and down the glass walls when they can work off their energy playing in the current.

There is a thread which is fairly recent with a picture of a member's SAP tank so set up. A least a couple of us commented that the layout was quite like what we use ourselves for these fish - because it does work.

[Archelon]

Thanks for this - interesting, will see what I can do. The pacing puffers do currently work out in the current of the outflows - now set at the right hand side of the tank - may extend the pipe so it curves around to the front.

Incidentally, the puffer who has come good is the largest and is growing much faster and fuller than the others - I haven't noticed any aggression bewteen any of them.

Thanks

P

[Dinsdale]

Brine shrimp and "dry food" (do you mean flakes?) are not a good diet for a puffer. Check out the feeding article in the Library section.

[Archelon]

Yes - I have been thinking about this after visiting this forum. Because the puffers are in an Amazon community - they will inevitably feed on some of the food I feeding sparingly to the other fish, alternate mix of flake, Tetra Prima and tablet - the puffers eat the flake and the prima. I also feed frozen and live brine shrimp, that the puffers also like and they continue to decimate my malaysian pond snail infestation. I plan to try some other foods recommended on this site, perhaps hand fed to target the puffers and get them craving for more 'healthy' fare - any tips for doing this in a community tank? The puffers are still a bit skittish when my hand is in the tank.

Yours

P

[RTR]

The issue is not just that the prepared foods for a community are not the best for carnivores like puffers. The biggest single issue with keeping SAPs is tooth overgrowth - and that requires a very high crunch diet. It would be like feeding a rabbit oatmeal - the critter won't starve, but it will have problems and need more frequent dentistry.

[Archelon]

Hi

In your experience, is there a danger that the saps will overfeed on the dry food and be less inclined to eat the snails - they still seem to have a go at them. Also, other than the snails, which of the recommended foods for puffers particularly suit juvenile saps?

Thanks in adavance.

Yours

Peter

[Boxermom]

The snails aren't Malaysian trumpet snails, are they? The ones with the tight, hard, ice cream cone shaped shells? Those aren't good for puffers as they have been known to break puffer's teeth.

As far as feeding them in a community tank, I've found in my community tank (which no longer has puffers, btw, as they always ended up munching on every other fish in the tank, despite their size), the other fish will either eat whatever I put in there or will leave it alone.

For instance, I have a baby whale in one tank that is constantly hiding, but needs meaty food. The mollies and tiger barbs eat anything and everything. So I make sure to lure them to the other side with some live worms when I'm feeding the baby whale.

In my other community tank, the white clouds eat flake food that everyone else ignores (except the cories). And they ignore the live worms and algae pellets that everyone else eats. Everyone gets what they need without anyone getting too much.

In my GSP tank, which has a couple of juvie mollies in it, I clip a shell-on shrimp tail to the glass with a food clip. I clip the cut end so that the tail end sticks out. The GSP has to much through the shell to get at the meat, and the mollies can't eat anything until he's had his fill and then they can pick at it.

[Archelon]

Oh dear - the puffers are going to have to take their chances with the Malaysian snails - they seem to be getting the upper hand with them so far and at least their beaks are getting a good workout - have since stocked up on lots of shelled shrimp and krill to add a bit more crunch in their diet and last night they had a ball - as did all the other inhabitants - two smaller puffers still pacing - will try the large clip-on shelled-shrimp trick too - thanks.

BTW - have no idea what you are referring to when you when you talk about a baby whale - in my business baby whale probably means something quite different.


P

[Boxermom]

Baby whale is Pollimyrus castelnaui, one of the mormyrid groups like an elephant nose without the nose. And grey.

[Archelon]

Hi

My C asellus trio seem to be doing well, although 2 of them still pace up and down the glass for much of the day. The other, the larger, is growing much faster and fatter than the others and does a lot less pacing. All seem to be feeding well on frozen crunch food and snails.

Still worried about the overgrown teeth thing - are there any pics out there of puffers with overgrown teeth so that I know what to look for?

Yours

P

[nmonks]

It's pretty obvious when SAPs have overgrown teeth. One of mine does (and sadly was bought that way) but it's a bit young for me to feel ready to man-handle it and cut the teeth manually. Anyway, what you see is the lips pulled back and the teeth sticking out. In a normal SAP, as with my other specimen, the mouth is open and all you see is the edges of the teeth, if that.

My SAPs do sometimes eat tiny baby Malayan snails. They show no interest at all in bigger ones. I'm open-minded on the risk to teeth thing -- I've read strong comments from more experienced puffer people both for and against Malayan snails as puffer food. All I can say is mine simply ignore them except for the tiniest ones they find on the floating plants and leaves.

I will echo what RTR said about these fish being open water fish. That seems to be their biology, and they have zero territorial aggression between themselves because they don't even build nests like other freshwater puffers, they scatter their eggs just like tetras. This isn't to say you might not see bullying, just as happens with small groups of tetras or barbs, but given space and if kept in the right numbers, they do seem happier in groups than singly.

My specimens, even after over 12 months of being at home, are still "skittish" to some degree, just like tetras. While hand-feedable, they don't seem to have that one-to-one interaction you see with some of the large Asian and African freshwater puffs. SAPs are interesting fish, and in some ways a breed apart from other freshwater puffers.

Cheers,

Neale

[Boxermom]

If you look in the hospital forum at the dentristry thread, there are some pictures of puffs with overgrown teeth.