F8 worry: any advice?!

[coldmachineUK]

Hi,

My F8 puffer has altered behaviour the last two days, which makes me concerned. He seems to be having trouble swimming, at least that's how it looks (though then he will seem fine for other periods). He is staying close to the substrate, in one spot, and all his fins bar the caudal seem to be giving him trouble (i.e. theyre not moving as rapidly as they used to, and its as if it's too much effort for him to move them and therefore keep himself afloat).

As you know I had an algae problem: I fixed this today by removing the three real plants and replacing them with silk/plastic (washed) plants. I also added more substrate (gravel) on top of the existing stuff which had bright green algae. I know this will not abate my algae problem but I wondered if the algae might have been upsetting him?

The water params, measured twice weekly but also again today prior to a 50% PWC are:

Salinity: 1.004-1.005 S.G. (normally he's at 1.005 but after my 50% I only got him up to 1.004).
Ammonia: 0
NitrIte: 0
NitrAte: 8.0

He has a weekly to twice weekly PWC of 25% or so along with a gravel vac clean.

His tank is clean, and his belly is white. His gills seem redder than normal which I'd usually take as a sign of nitrIte levels but they're 0 as I say: I tested my kit on a fishless cycling tank and they are registering levels so it's not a dud test either.

I changed out 50% of his water just now as an emergency measure, and also added 5ml of pimafix and 5ml of melafix.

Any ideas? He seems...depressed!

Oh, tank stats btw: he's living in an 8G right now, but his new tank is finally on the way and due to arrive in 2 weeks (slightly later than planned). It's a 2' 63L tank in which I'm hoping to house him with two black mollies I have across two other FW tanks I run.

[Pandora114]

sounds like he's squished...can you find a bigger home for him till the bigger tank gets there????

[coldmachineUK]

Well, my other two tanks are both 2' but they're fully stocked, and my fishless cycled tank which is a 135L is for cichlids so the aquascaping would be too sharp I think for him (lots of lavarock etc.), plus it's not 'salted' (and I wouldn't want to do that in light of the incoming cichlids).

He's been fine in the tank so far (2 months): the tank was fully cycled initially by way of transferring a filter from one tank to this one (I kept a check on levels and I had a 0.125 nitrIte 'peak' in the 2nd week but all is 0 after that): I always keep a spare filter running in one of my tanks), and space hasn't seemed an issue: he's always swum around, hovered at the front watching and played in the filter bubbles.
The last two days he's been clamping his fins and looks poorly It looks exactly like symptoms of whitespot or poor water quality, only neither of those things are present!!!

I also noticed when he does swim, it's for a tiny amount of time before he 'lets go' and stops moving his pectoral fins before sinking down to the bottom as a result. He also is bumping into things like the rocks, which he never did before.

Help!!!!

EDIT: I got a photo:

[puffermama]

Sorry to hear 'Little Mister Puffer Man' is not looking so well. Hope he gets better, if he isn't well.

I was wondering whether there are any places for him to hide. Puffers sometimes like to have like 'caves' they can call home, as it were. If you have some rocks in the tank you could position them so as to make at least an overhang, if not a cave?

In any event, good luck.

[coldmachineUK]

Yep he does have a few nooks and crannies: he has a space between two rocks that's like a cave for him, but he mainly likes to go either behind the UGF powerhead or underneath the heater (in the gap between that and the substrate).

My current thinking is that my internal powerfilter is actually somehow poisoning him. I tried to go back over what I did during the emergency PWC: when I did it he was lethargic. During it he was playing in the bubbles and was fine. Then afterwards he was lethargic and poorly again.
The only thing I can think of is that during the PWC I removed the internal filter to clean it. I didn't change anything else except remove the plants. So, I've just removed the filter and added another one (a spare running in another stocked tank) and he seems a little perkier again now.

Weird. Anyone else got any ideas?!!!

[Hilly]

What do you normally use to de-chlorinate the water?

[coldmachineUK]

I use Tetra Aquasafe.
He's swimming around a little bit more freely, but vertical and still struggling, which is an improvement on before. I tried to feed him some brine shrimp but he isn't eating. He was last fed Friday night, so should be ok for now. I'm going to check on him during the night and see if there's any more improvement.
I think if it was the filter poisoning him somehow that maybe I caught it too late: I'm so stressed thinking that; I could have taken it out days ago if that was to blame... The damage may already be done.

[Dinsdale]

I would take out the UGF...probably lots of gunk underneath. The lack of space could be stressing him out a lot, too.

[coldmachineUK]

The UGF is only two months old, so it should be ok and the flow is strong, so it doesnt lead me to believe thats a problem. When he gets the new tank in a couple of weeks it'll be left behind in his current setup (I'm crossing everything and praying that he lives to see it though!).

He's swimming around a lot better now, as I say, since i removed the other internal power filter. I really have a strong suspicion it was somehow causing the problem.

He doesnt have a black belly, so stress doesnt seem like its an issue either: this was a sudden (yesterday and today) decline in condition, and as I say he's perkier now. He's been eating plenty before too but tonight he's refusing to eat leading me to believe it's not stress but a sudden problem with his health.

[The Fisherman]

I would take out the UGF...probably lots of gunk underneath. The lack of space could be stressing him out a lot, too.

I agree. Without a lot of maintenance, UGFs will be more trouble then benefit. Although since yours is new, your probably right and that its not the problem.

I just removed the UGF from my 10g F8 tank. I also added another 30g worth of filtration. I have ~45 gallons worth of filtration on his tank. He loves it.

Glad to hear he is doing better now.

Keep us updated.

[coldmachineUK]

Ok, the good news is that he has survived the night. So, I'm hoping this is a good sign and that his condition isn't as bad as I worried it might be.
The bad news he's shown no signs of further improvement: he is swimming about which is good, but he still seems to be breathing quickly and doesn't seem to be able to control himself as well as before (swimming vertically on occasion, being carried by the current etc.).

His pectoral fins are less clamped (and he's using them to swim better), but his caudal fin clamps on occasion.

He just seems very lethargic still, and a bit listless. Although I don't think it's the fact that his tank is small as suggested, I sort of hope it IS that because then it will all be fixed when the new one arrives. Will keep everyone posted!

[coldmachineUK]

Ok, I just came up after lunch and found him, he's passed away. I'm absolutely distraught

[Hilly]

Really sorry to hear that

[coldmachineUK]

I'm a bit more clear headed now, sorry just it was a huge shock to me: if he had been gradually getting ill for weeks it would have been less of a stress probably, but it was the last two days I was tearing my hair out thinking what to do.

I really appreciate everyone's help and advice, the tips were great and it just seems there was little I could do.

I really don't know where to go from here: I have the new tank I'd ordered for him arriving, and all the equipment and goods for him (Tropic marin salt, ramshorns breeding container, etc. etc. etc.). At the same time I feel sick thinking about getting another one because he's completely irreplaceable

[Phaedrus]

There's only so much we can do, unfortunately. They arrive in such bad condition that even the best conditions at home will have a hard time making a difference. So don't take it too hard as a personal failure. If anyone has what it takes to keep puffers, it's you. Sorry to hear he about your loss.