Just my luck, sick GSP

GunSmoke78 · Post by **GunSmoke78** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:57 am

Only picked him up yesterday. Put him in a 32gal tank all to himself. Seemed very healthy all day yesterday and throughout this morning until my wife fed him. After this he dissapeared for a bit (I literally could not find him, must be a really good hiding spot). When he reappeared, I noticed ick covering most of one side, and he's clamping his tail-fin. He's also swimming erratically up and down the top half of the tank. I did a quick water check, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0.5, Nitrate 10, ph 7.4. Salinity is 1 tbsp per 5 gallons. I tried my best to match the water parameters at the LFS to reduce changeover stress. Now the nitrite reading has me worried. The tank had been fully cycled for a week, adding 2.5ppm ammonia per day until the day before putting him in. So where this nitrite spike is coming from I don't know. However, the LFS owner suspected something might be wrong, so he gave me a couple blue tablets to drop in if things don't go well. A friend of my wife says puffers are sensitive to the stuff and I should just up the salinity and increase the temp. I've already raised temp to 82F, afraid to go too high. There's lots of aeration since I have 2 airstones and an air curtain going. Now I'm thinking of doing a 50% water change with 2tbsp/5gal salinity tomorrow, though I'm afraid a water change so soon might cause the little guy even more stress. Any suggestions, opinions?

Post by **Myaj** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:31 am

First of all, what kind of salt are you using? Aquarium salt or marine salt? Aquarium salt is not giving him the right type of water he needs, you need marine salt to do that.

That said, if you raise the salt levels too fast, you can kill off your good bacteria and start the tank cycling all over again.

I'm not so up to date on using medications with puffers, so you'll have to wait for someone else on that one, but I would say in the mean time, water changes are good, maybe don't raise the salinity too much more if you are using marine salt (and get a hydrometer or refracometer so you know exactly how much you are raising it, over .002 each week will kill the bacteria).

Good start for him though, nice sized tank, precycled. The stress of moving just makes them so vunerable to things like ich.

Post by **Pufferpunk** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:06 am

If it is ich & your not just seeing his tiny spines. there is an article on treating it, stickied in this forum.

GunSmoke78 · Post by **GunSmoke78** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:48 pm

Well it's definately ick, one of the few things I can recognize from my old tetra tank. It doesn't seem to have spread overnight, and he's acting better. Such a funny fish to feed, just like giving a puppy treats! Nitrites have not dropped, so I'm gonna do a 50% waterchange tonight adding 2tbps/5gal. Yes I use marine salt (Instant Ocean). Gonna do this every other day, increasing the salinity by 1tbsp/5gal. This'll have salinity increasing at a rate of approx. 0.001/week. I've read most of the articles, just no mention of any meds except Melafix. Just not sure if I should use the "blue" stuff like the LFS owner says. I'm more worried about this nitrite spike right now, cause I was reading 0ppm for 5 days straight before putting him in.

Another question on the side. I use big 6gal plastic trashcans to prep water for water changes. The problem with this is, I have to lift these trashcans onto a stand atop my dinner table to bring it above the tanks water level, since I use a gravel vac to transfer the water over. Being military, there's a very real chance I will leave home for long periods of time, and my wife CANNOT lift a 6gal trashcan full of water above her head. Anyone know of some kind of pump or system I can get to just siphon it up from ground level?

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:02 pm

I use a 2 quart Koolaid type pitcher.

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:42 pm

There are submersible pumps available designed specifically for lifting water from a lower compartment to a higher one. They are used extensively in marine systems to move water from the sump back into the main display tank. Check out big als online.

Post by **Myaj** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:34 pm

Yes, a larger powerhead or a water pump will do that for you. Just look at what they are rated for "head", which is how high they can push water up.

Pandora114 · Post by **Pandora114** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:36 pm

Hey, Gunsmoke's Wife here...

Ich is still around...we're also having another bit of a problem.

He did a %50 water change last night (didn't ask how much Instat Ocean he put in...sorry) and the Nitrites are at an insane 2ppm still...

Ammonia = 0 ppm
Nitrites = 2ppm
NitrAtes = 40ppm
PH = 7.4

I've been instructed not to feed him today, and to only feed him every other day...(on water change days till the Ich goes away)

Anything else we can do to bring those pesky Nitrites down???

He's still an active little clown...he's been begging me for food all morning and it's breaking my heart..

ETA: Someone reccomended putting in Ion Exchange resin packs into our filter....would that help or harm? TIA!!!

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:11 pm

I would do large water changes every day, without increasing the salinity. Raising the salinity too fast will kill the good bacteria. Not sure how fast he's raising it, but he may be doing it too quickly.

Pandora114 · Post by **Pandora114** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:17 pm

He's raising it 1tbsp to every 5 gallons every 2 days. So it could very well be too fast..He'll read this thread when he gets home (one of the first things he checks other than his gmail lol) So he'll probably do as you suggested.

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:47 pm

Its really vital that ya'll get a hydrometer, or better yet, a refractometer. Guessing at the salinity isn't a good practice and can be quite harmful for the fish. Ya'll need to be able to measure the SG.

Pandora114 · Post by **Pandora114** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:55 pm

we do have a hydrometer, just dont know where he hid it. Havn't gotten around to getting a refractometer yet.

I'll tear apart the area around the aquarium to find the hydrometer and see if i can get a reading. I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume he put 3tbsp of Instant Ocean in each 5 gallon bucket last night. So it's not quite at full brackish yet...

Gonna do this every other day, increasing the salinity by 1tbsp/5gal. This'll have salinity increasing at a rate of approx. 0.001/week.

That's from one of his Previous posts in this thread.

ETA: Found it. Salinity is at 1.000 right now according to the hydrometer. When we first got him it wasn't even registering because he was only at 1tbps per 5 gallons.

Boxermom · Post by **Boxermom** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:02 pm

Somehow I don't think that's accurate. It is indeed raising it slowly if that's all he's increasing per week, but ya'll are now doing changes every other day with him adding more salt. I'm not sure though that 1 Tbs. of salt per 5 gallons .001 per week, especially with removing some and adding some. I'm guessing that evaporation hasn't been an issue yet with the frequency of water changes you guys are doing but in the future will have to be taken into consideration as well. That's why measuring the SG is so vital. Guesswork doesn't really cut it.

Hydrometers aren't terribly accurate, especially over time, which is why we recommend a refractometer instead. They're pretty inexpensive on Ebay.

Pandora114 · Post by **Pandora114** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:11 pm

Yeah he's been questioning the accuracy of it as well to be honest.

The Refractometer is next on our "to get" list for sure.

I'll let him know (if he doesn't check this thread) that he should keep the salinity the same for the next water changes till the Nitrites go down...

I think I'll bring up the possibility of internal parasites as well...Bubbles' belly goes down awful fast after a feed...

ETA: We were trying to increase the salinity to get rid of the ich problem (since it;s freshwater ich) but I guess we caused another problem lol *sigh*

We tried the temp increase technique but that just stressed the poor little guy to no end....

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:26 pm

With temp increase, it's good to add more aeration with some bubblewands or a powerhead. The hotter the water, the less dissolved oxygen.

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Just my luck, sick GSP

Just my luck, sick GSP