F8 + Algae :(

[coldmachineUK]

Hi, I've done lots of searching of past forum topics on this but came up with blanks about any useable solutions (i.e. my light levels are down, my tank is repositioned, I've added plants to outcompete, everything short of medicating which I avoid wherever possible).

I have a hair algae and bright vivid green algae issue right now in my F8 puffer tank. He's in 1.005 S.G. and the water params are 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, and 5.0 Nitrate on my API test kit.
The algae problem is not yet extensive, but I can see it becoming an issue so I want to tackle it now if I can.
The hair algae is attached to the tips of my plants, and the vivid green algae is growing across the substrate (large gravel, since I use a UGF with this guy - along with an internal power filter).

I do weekly 20%-25% water changes, maintaining the salinity of the tank. He and his water seem fine.

I've reduced light levels, repositioned the tank, added more plants, and kept an eye on water params but none of this is helping with the problem. I have found no suggestions of suitable brackish tolerate algae eaters anywhere, and no means of cleaning up the substrate + hair algae (only how to clean algae off the sides of the tank which I'm already familiar with).

Do I have to just accept that my tank will become overrun with hair algae and the substrate with this vivid green stuff? Or, is there a workable solution A natural one preferably! I can't stand medication unless its as a last resort.

[Jayhawk]

Mollys are BW and do a good job with hair algae, but I just find algae fairly common in my BW tank no matter what the water parameters are. Another option for the plants (I assume fake) is to pull them out and wash them periodically which is what many of us do.

Do you gravel vac and suck out the gunk beneath your UGF? Naturally, this isn't an issue if you use RFUG, but with UGF sometimes folks don't realize they need to do that.

How high wattage is your lighting? Did you try no lights for a week or two? Any sources of sunlight coming into the tank?

Eric

[Pufferpunk]

I may have to break down & get som mollies for my F8 tank too. Of 8 tank, this is the only one w/algae issues.

[coldmachineUK]

Hmm...I have two black mollies in two other tanks actually (they got separated because one was quite vicious to the other though they are both female, so maybe that might become an issue...I'll have a think about it).

As for tank conds: it does get sunlight yes, but I've minimised this by positioning, and we're talking North UK 'light' here (lol) so not very much. I've cut down on the hours of lighting in any case to about 8-10 per day. The bulb is an 11W compact flourescent (the tubes which are bent over to double up).

The plants I use are actually real: I figured they'd outcompete for nutrients and therefore the algae would disappear, but all that's happened is the algae grew on them as well :O Grrrrr!

I originally had a diatom problem in the early days, but this seems to have given way to the vivid green algae + hair algae now
Maybe if I go with silk plants instead I could wash them as you say, and just accept algae growth as a normal thing.

I've not tried keeping the lighting off yet: I'm going to do that. I cured an algae bloom in another tank way way back by a blackout for 24hours (total covering of tank), so maybe just turning lights off for a week or two might help as you say: I'll give it a go!

I gravel vac twice a week, so get most of the gunk. I haven't cleaned my UGF yet though :S Maybe that's an idea when I move him into his bigger home. I do clean the internal power filter each week though. Once he's in the 2' tank, I would think my two mollies would make good companions (one of them is huge...!). They won't bully the puffer will they? It'd be the other way around right? Also, they're in FW right now: would I need to gradually acclimatise them to the 1.005 or will they be ok going straight in (i.e. normal acclimatisation methods)?

[puffermama]

I have the same problem, I'm sorry to say.

I've just started again with my F8 tank, put in new rocks and plants. Would you believe ... 3 days on and the rocks have patches of bright green already!

I have Powerglo in there at the moment and will reduce it to a Floraglo, and refill the CO2 System to help the plants and therefore hinder the algae ... I hope.

It's just a question of always keeping one step ahead of the algae, I guess.

[Phaedrus]

How many gallons is the tank?

How long has the tank been set up?

In the initial break-in period you can expect a whole array of different algaes to take over your tank until it gets settled in. This is especially the case in brackish puffer tanks where algae eaters are not an option.

Using real plants in brackish water can be very difficult to pull off. You must meet soil, lighting, and feeding conditions very closely or the plants will die or stop growing. I'd recommend either sticking to very easy to grow plants or switching to fake plants alltogether.

The under gravel filter has to go too. Either convert it to a reverse flow under gravel filter, or remove it entirely. They are ticking time bombs and more hassle than they are worth. Get a canister filter or a nice hang on back filter instead.

If you do try keeping the light off, I suggest removing your live plants entirely and completely blakcing out the tank with a towel or blanket. If there is ANY light, there will be an algae there to take advantage of it. Diatoms in particular can thrive in very low lighting where other algae cannot. Do daily water changes during this time, because as the algae dies they will pollute the water.

If you move a fish from one salinity to another it is best to do it gradually via a drip acclimatization. Use a crimped airline to syphon drip the salty tank water into a bucket containing the fish you intend to move over. It should take an hour or so to raise the salinity to 1.005.

[Myaj]

For hair algae and BGA, one thing I've found that usually helps, in addition to water changes and good vaccuuming (especially with that undergravel filter!), is to increase current. Adding another filter or a powerhead can really help.

[coldmachineUK]

How many gallons is the tank?

The tank is 30L, so 8G. In October he will be upgraded to a 63L (17G) 2' tank. It'd be then that I would add mollies as tank mates (the two female black mollies I already have in two other FW tanks).

How long has the tank been set up?

Two months now.

Using real plants in brackish water can be very difficult to pull off. You must meet soil, lighting, and feeding conditions very closely or the plants will die or stop growing. I'd recommend either sticking to very easy to grow plants or switching to fake plants alltogether.

Ok, I'll probably opt for silk plants when I move him then. I've had three real plants in there for about 1month + 2 weeks (since 2 weeks in I began with the diatom problem).

The under gravel filter has to go too.

*Nods. Years ago UGFs were 'the in thing' I remember, my first tank had one back when I was 10 years old (lol), and I never used them since. But, I was assured they'd improved since then and were an effective biological filter. I will keep it with the small tank he's in right now, and then when I move him across I'll leave it behind in that case and go with two internal power filters. I run canisters (Tetratec EXs) on my other FW tanks but don't want to invest in one for a 63L setup tbh.

Thx for the tips on acclimatisation to salinity. I will probably work on the principle of half filling the new tank, and then siphoning in the old tank water the way you suggest.

[coldmachineUK]

I just had recommended to me by someone that putting a few ghost shrimp in might work. Theyd eat the algae apparently, and then act as food for my puffer. Has anyone tried this? Wouldnt the little F8 just munch his way through them all in one sitting?

[Phaedrus]

Undergravel filters are outdated. Reverse flow under gravel filters are still useful though. Basically, what it means is that instead of sucking water down through the gravel and back out, you use a filtered powerhead to push water up through the gravel. This eliminates the worries of bio buildup underneath.

The gravel itself is a very large biological surface area, and having water go through it prevent anerobic pockets from forming. In low end brackish tanks like yours, using aragonite or crushed coral, along with a reverse flow under gravel filter is a great way to keep the pH buffered.

There is some great reading to be found here on the subject of under gravel filters from our library: http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/ ... lters.html

[Phaedrus]

I just had recommended to me by someone that putting a few ghost shrimp in might work. Theyd eat the algae apparently, and then act as food for my puffer. Has anyone tried this? Wouldnt the little F8 just munch his way through them all in one sitting?

Ghost shrimp can be pretty lazy algae eaters if there is other food sources available. So they would have to be pretty hungry.

Depending on the F8s size and personality, he may ignore them entirely, or harrass them to death, or chomp them to pieces.

It may be worth finding out, but keep in mind that the experiment will likely produce a large bioload, possibly further aggrevating the algae problem.

Amano shrimp are very good algae eaters and would also likely do find in low end brackish water, but they are more expensive and hard to come by. I would hate to waste them on an experiment.

Another though... If you have the bigger tank on hand already, it may be a good idea to start setting it up and fishless cycling it for a while to let it get a bit more established before adding a real fish bioload. This may reduce your algae outbreaks.

[Jayhawk]

I'm glad to hear you're going to upgrade - your puffer will need the larger space.

As for cleaning under the UGF, what I mean is taking the gravel vac and placing the underwater cup part flat against the UGF through the gravel...if nothing much comes out, it's not that dirty yet, but my past experience is there will be lots of gunk that you suck out.

Eric

[RTR]

Some of us have never operated a BW tank for any period of time without an undergravel filter, although in recent dacades they have all been RFUG and mostly OE-RFUG. And I still would not, especially a puffer tank, and more especially light BW.

Outdated? Yup, sure. In your dreams. IMO & IME it is the best biofilter and offers the most stable water chemistry of anything available for light BW.

[sassiegemstone]

I just had recommended to me by someone that putting a few ghost shrimp in might work. Theyd eat the algae apparently, and then act as food for my puffer. Has anyone tried this? Wouldnt the little F8 just munch his way through them all in one sitting?

I tried it and the ghost shrimp did munch on some algae at least the ones my GSP didn't eat. Also, won't snails help out too?

I had a issue like this with my GSP when it was in brackish waters and I got rid of it by using sand as the substrate instead of gravel.

I also had a powerhead going plus made a habit of turning the lights off at night when I went to sleep.

[Phaedrus]

Snails have a worse chance of survival than shrimp do. The unfortunate fact is that a brackish tank will have algae issues. There is no reliable cleanup crew for a brackish puffer tank.