serious puffer problem

sstimac · Post by **sstimac** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:00 pm

I bought a turgidus last week. I put him in a cycled 10g. He's two inches long so I figured this would be decent temporary home. The tank had been cycled for a little more than a month. two days ago I noticed the ammonia levels were on the rise. So, I did a 50% partial and treated it with ammo lock and stress zyme. Yesterday the ammonia levels climbed to two. I did another partial and retreated the tank. This morning when I woke up the tank was cloudy and the levels had risen to 8ppm! Flew to the store bought 15 gallons of spring water and began changing the water. I changed the water until I only had one gallon left. That was at 9:30am. After the 14g partial the levels read between .5ppm and 1ppm. So, I treated the tank again with ammo lock. Now it's 7pm and the levels are at 4ppm! Already. How is this happening? What do I need to do? I did a massive pruning of the plants, removed anything that could be rotting or withering. I do not have another tank that I can put him in. I'm also concerned because he cost me $30 that's the most I've ever spent on a fish. I need an idea fast, please. Thanks in advance. I also upped the filtration. The 10g now has a Penguin 170 and a whisper rated for a 30g. Along with the normal activated carbon I have one pouch in each filter that has ammo carb.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:04 pm

Tank was not cycled. Try to find some BioSpira ASAP from a local store. Do you have another tank that is cycled?

jake_vdb · Post by **jake_vdb** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:05 pm

sstimac wrote:The tank had been cycled for a little more than a month.

Did you have other fish in it, or keep adding ammonia to keep the nitrifying bacteria colony going?

Basically you can either keep up with the large partial water changes, and an ammonia detoxifier, or you can see if the store will take him back for a couple of weeks (probably your best option)

sstimac · Post by **sstimac** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:07 pm

the tank was cycled I housed subadult lethrinops sp. in it for a month. The tank was empty for one day before i added the turgidus in it.

sstimac · Post by **sstimac** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:08 pm

I live in the middle of nowhere. Everything is closed on sunday.

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:11 pm

The ammo lock may be interfering with your tests.

What do you use for your dechlorinator?

What kind of filtration do you have in there?

Your best bet is to continue to do large water changes. Like 80% 2 or 3 times a day.
Stop using the ammo lock for now and just rely on water changes to remove whatever is in there.

sstimac · Post by **sstimac** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:14 pm

Filtration - penguin 170 plus pouch of ammo carb and a large whisper PF with a pouch of ammo carb. It should amount to over 120g per hour.
I'm using Stress Coat as a conditioner. I also treat the water to a dose of Stress Zyme.

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:18 pm

The ammo-carb is probably the problem here.

What it does is trap the ammonia, depriving and starving the bacteria. When the ammo-carb is exhausted, the ammonia levels sky rocket and the bacteria are not able to catch up in a reasonable amount of time and the tank basically has to cycle all over again.

This is the danger of ammonia removing products. They can be useful in emergencies, but for daiy use it's much better to have a fully-cycled tank capable of handling a full bio-load rather than keeping the load artifically low.

Next time you're at the LFS, get a big bottle of Prime that will last you for years and be done with it. It's the most useful and economical conditioner out there. 5ml / 50g for daily usage with water changes, and it can be used in higher doses to detoxify ammonia/nitrite in emergencies.

sstimac · Post by **sstimac** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:20 pm

Ok i'm on it. I work at an LFS. Should I remove the ammo carb now?

Phaedrus · Post by **Phaedrus** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:23 pm

What do you have in there for bacterial filtration? The ammo-carb may be contain the majority of your bacteria. Once it is exhausted, it basically becomes biological filtration media, just like carbon when it's exhausted.

I'd leave it in for the time being until you get things under control. You should have some durable bio-media in your filters like bio-max at all times. This media lasts forever and will be your dedicated bio-filter media.

sstimac · Post by **sstimac** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:31 pm

The penguin 170 is a biowheel. I use the foam pouches as a method of biofiltration. I rarely change them. The filter cartridges themselves are the only things I regularly change (once every month or so).

saynever · Post by **saynever** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:51 pm

that ammo lock stuff should be avoided at all costs, no?

i mean, its like a band-aid fix to the real problem. Stop with any "ammonia away" products, water change like a mofo, and see if you can find some sort of live plant for cheap, which should have a bunch of bacteria on it.

sstimac · Post by **sstimac** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:21 pm

It's in a planted tank. 12 plants in all. I did just do another 70% WC. I have 12 gallons of water waiting for another one tonight before I go to bed. Then I'll prep more water for another huge change when I wake up. I hope my wife will make the coffee tomorrow while changing water. i just tested the water again it read 1ppm. I'll change it when it hits 2ppm or when I go to bed whichever comes first. At the rate it's been going i'll be changing the water long before i go bed, maybe even twice. I haven't lost a fish to poor care in years, i refuse to let him die.

Post by **Pufferpunk** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:28 am

I use the foam pouches as a method of biofiltration. I rarely change them.

Are you at least rinsing them?

saynever · Post by **saynever** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:08 am

good point, built up decaying matter is a good source of amonia.

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