The Tribulations of My LFS -_-

[Amoore311]

First off...

Hello to everyone. I'm a new convert to the Goodness that is Puffers. My journey started off when my 10 gallon tank finally completely cycled.

Well, they didn't have any Rams in stock, so I browsed through the current stock with my girlfriend who obviously picked out the cutest fish in existence, the Green Spotted Puffer.

I remembered reading about these little guys on Fish Geeks and finding out they were brackish water fish. The pet store already had them in full marine (1 point for them). So I asked the guy (supposedly a "salt water expert") if I could just put some salt I had already into the tank to straighten it all out. He said that's fine and that 2 would be fine for my tank.

So I purchased:

-2 GSP's (so I thought)

-1 Hydrometer

-1 Bag Cichlid Type Pellets (guy advised me to buy these)

-1 Small HOB Protein Skimmer


So I get home and dump my aquarium salt in there until I reach the desired level, which was around mid-range brackish. I acclimate my two little friends, and get em into the tank. No worries at all until they don't eat any food at all later on.

Well that's enough detail to make a long story short......

-I was sold 1 F8 and 1 GSP....the F8 was in Full Marine conditions with the other GSPs at the Pet Shop.

-I apparently tossed far to much Salt (Aquarium Salt to boot) at one time

-Spent $8 on the wrong food (went and picked up Brine Shrimp and Blood worms- freeze dried)

-Bought a protein skimmer that won't work until I hit full marine


My first question is how in the heck did that F8 survive in full marine conditions? It was swimming around like all the others at the store when I was there.

Both fish are doing fine now eating messier than a 2 year old....

Currently in the Hunt for a 55 gallon+ tank trying to get one through the newspaper or yard sales....no luck yet though ><;;

[saraybe]

my GSP also likes fresh shrimp every now and then. most grocery stores will give you a single piece for free after they look at you funny for asking for a single shrimp. ( just do like i do and tell them you are on a very strict diet )

i don't know how much luck you will have with GSP and a F8 in the same tank together even if the tank is bigger. my GSP is in a 30G brackish with 4 mollys. he likes it that way, but i'm thinking of giving away the mollys so he can have the tank to himself cause he can be aggressive at times.

[Dinsdale]

I would return both of them until you can get a bigger tank. The F8 and GSP require different conditions so they can't be kept together long-term. The GSP requires a minimum of 30 gallons, and the F8 requires 15-20 minimum. A 55g would make a really good long-term home for 1 GSP or 3 F8's.

Your LFS obviously did a bad job educating you (and themselves ) in plenty of ways. It's hard to know who to trust for reliable information, isn't it?

-Pellets are not a suitable diet. Neither is brine shrimp. Bloodworms are good though. Read the article on feeding here: http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/puffer/food.html

-10 gallons is way too small for even 1 puffer

-You need marine salt (you already know that it sounds like)

...etc.....

A lot of LFS's will tell you they are keeping fish in full marine or brackish, when in reality they themselves are only using Aquarium Salt, so it's still freshwater. That's probably what what going on.

If you can get a tank immediately, you could probably hang on to the F8 for a little while longer in the 10 gallon, but I definitely wouldn't keep 2 in there, and the GSP will suffer more if kept in it too long.

[Amoore311]

Yeah I have been pricing a few different tanks during the last couple of days. If I can't find a tank through the paper/garage sale I will break down and buy a 55 or 70 gallon on Sunday.

The two fish are still extremely small and they are pretty complacent towards each other right now. I'm pretty sure they were in full marine do to the fact that I saw their protein skimmer for that tank and it was in fact working, so the salinity must have been pretty high brackish to full marine.

I will read over that feeding article again. I know I need to supply snails and hard foods to keep the beaks down. They do seem to tip those brine shrimp to shreds. I cut it into very small pieces so they don't make such a terrible mess.

Luckily I bought all my Equipment rated for 70 gallon tank. So I can just move it over to my bigger tank if I get rid of the F8.


The puffs seem happy now, but I won't keep them in the smaller tank any longer than absolutely necessary. I have so many rocks and plants for them to play in they are always active.

[Pufferpunk]

F8s can live in SW for a while but they will live the longest (18+ years) in low-end BW, 1.005. Since the GSP will grow to 3x it's size & eventually get much more aggressive as it matures, I'd seperate them.

[Amoore311]

Thanks for the quick replies everyone.

I'm heading over to purchase a 70 gallon tank today and possibly a 20 gallon long as well so I can use my 10 gallon as part of a sump system for the bigger tank.

Does anyone know where I can find any information on local Aquarists Societies? Would my town hall have that info? I can't seem to find anything anywhere >_<;;

[Dinsdale]

Where are you located?

[Amoore311]

Orange County NY

Campbell Hall to be exact.

[Pufferpunk]

You can look for local reef clubs here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forum ... forumid=80

[The Fisherman]

Hmmm, how unfortunate...Although I am glad you are educating yourself

I would find a bigger tank for your GSP soon. I don't know how long he will last in a ten gallon... How big is the GSP? If he is still quite small, he might be ok in a 10g for a few weeks, but don't wait too long.

For the F8, if he is still quite small (like an inch or under), he should be fine for a little while in a 10g, if he is ALONE, you keep up on WCs and with lots of overfiltration. I have my F8 in a 10g, ( I want to upgrade but I can't ATM) he has been in there for a little over a year, and he is doing reasonably well, although I am afraid he has just started stunting recently. I'm looking to upgrade to a 20g long as soon as I can afford it. ( I would never reccomend keeping a F8 in a 10g though.)

You might be better off returning the GSP, and setting up a 20g long for the F8. That would surely be the cheapest route. Although if you are willing to drop the cash, and put all the effort and work into it, go for it!

[Amoore311]

Well good and bad news.

Got a 55 gallon tank + stand for free from my aunt. I'm cycling that now but am transfering the same filter I have on the 10 gallon to the 55 gallon (the filter is rated @ for 70 gallons).

I want to get the salinity in my 10 gallon up to full marine so I can start out with some live sand and a small amount of live rock in the new tank to assist with filtration.

Unfortunately the GSP got hungry and ate the F8 A day befor I was going to bring it back to the store. The GSP seems pretty content right now. But I'm moving as fast as I can to get him into the bigger tank.

[Pufferpunk]

Poor F8--I hope you give the shop a piece of your mind about that!

[Amoore311]

Yeah they heard it from me yesterday. I went with my friends to buy some Odd's and ends for his new tank that I was helping him out with.

I talked with the guy that sold me the fish origonally to get my $8 back. He tried to play it off as bad water conditions until I gave him a sample of the water AND the 1/2 eaten fish carcas...

Alot of work for $8 but I was trying to prove a point.

I got my refund and actually took my business to another store (Petsmart instead of Petco) b/c they don't sell specialized species at all. And thusly all the fish that are there when I go in are always alive and happy.

Everytime I go into Petco they have a tank full of dead Rams....it's really dis-heartening.

anyways update on the tank....

__________________________________________

Took a reading after the water change to see how badly my Biological Filtration was destroyed by increasing the salt content from Fresh water to 1.014 in 15 minutes......

Ammonia -> 0
Nitrites -> Off the scale
Nitrates -> 10ppm

Now I'm changing the water every other day till my Bio Filter gets back up and running.

[Pufferpunk]

Why did you raise the SG so fast? Not really necessary... .002/week, would have been fine, rather than risking poisoning your puffer w/nitrites.

[Phaedrus]

You should be changing your water more than every other day at this point. 75% twice a day would be more appropriate.